Fire Forming With Unique and Scotty's?

Finger Toes

Finger Toes

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Just tried for the first time fire forming brass with unique powder. I had read that it was possible to use 15-20 grains of unique without stuffing the case full of some kind of filler (for most types of rifle sized brass). I tried 15 grains as perscribed holding the rifle vertically and the primer went off but nothing else. Then I started stuffing kleenex into the case and I got a 1/2 formed case with 15 grains. I tried 20, 25, and then stopped at 27 grains with filler. The cases looked almost right but the shoulder was not sharp at all. Can I put more powder in until the shoulder comes out sharp or should that happen on the second go with bullets instead of kleenex. The cases were annealed on the neck.
 
What round are you fire-forming? 20 grs of Unique sounds like a lot unless it's a big, large bore round. I often use 15 grs with a large 8mm round.

I've done this a lot and I think you need the filler. I'd first add the Unique, then fill the case to the bottom of the neck with Cream of Wheat, then pack it with tissue. If you also annealed the shoulder, they should come out better, but the real sharpness only comes with the first firing with a bullet.
 
Bullseye is probably the best for fireforming brass, with Red Dot a close second. I have done hundreds of 260AI, 30 Gibbs, 65x55AI, 7-08AI, etc using 12-15 grains of Bullseye, filling the case with Cornmeal or COW, then putting a small wad of TP on top to prevent it from pouring out. When you shoot this, you will have a perfect case, but possibly with a slightly more rounded shoulder edge than it will finally become when shooting full power loads with a bullet. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Finger Toes said:
Its 348 in a 348 AI chamber. The shoulders kind of look like weatherby. Does the cream of wheat give better results than just kleenex wadding?
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Cream of wheat works much better. I forget what load I used (40 years ago), so be cautious at the start.

I understand that kleenex tissue can become a solid obstruction in bottleneck case under these conditions, don't remember where I read that.

Am alternative would be to load some cast bullets and fireform that way, get some target practice at the same time.
 
hitch.bd said:
This is the only good use of cream of wheet I have ever heard!!!
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I've heard of folks feeding it to relatives that had overstayed their welcome. Sometimes as a welcome feast!

I'm with ya on the stuff having no other good use. Bad bad memories of the stuff as a kid. <shudder>.

Cheers
Trev
 
I on the other hand have Cream of Wheat for breakfast at least 5 days a week and it pains me to use it when I have to fire form brass, hate having to waist food but it is for the better good. lol

I use 15 grn of bullseye and fill the case to the shoulder of the cartridge and either stuff toilet paper to seal it off or some wax (stand the case up on the table and push wax into the mouth to seal it. Either method works just fine and gets you real close to the proper dimensions. When you shoot the newly formed case with a full load it will fill perfectly.
 
Guy I know uses grass seed as filler.
(lol the lawn type LOL)
It's cheaper and less wastefull than food.
LOL It smells like a new mowed lawn at the range in the middle of winter when he fires it off! LOL

PS: I also enjoy hot cereal, especially the Red River kind. Steel cut oats are pretty good also.
 
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I second RR. If it is an AI, then you would be better off loading up cartridges to practice with. Every time you fire a shot, you not only get to practice, you get your brand new case shape.
If you want to continue to waste powder, then you have to remember that powders (except for a few specially made 'blank' powders), need to have some resistance to build up gas pressure. It is the high pressure gas that forms your case. When you had Unique on its own, there was nothing to help generate the pressure, as the powder would be blown out the open case. Some probably fizzled or was scorched.
I have never used a filler to fireform cases, finding it better to use bullets and powder for useful purposes. I would be reluctant to use a filler such as Cream of Wheat with a sharp shouldered AI case, but I will admit that I have no experience with it.
 
I've just finished fireforming 348 brass into 450/348 AI using 15 gr. Bullseye,filling the case with Cream of Wheat and pushing a 22 cal. patch tightly into the neck....cases turned out perfectly formed and loaded and fired ok after neck sizing.
 
Another view on "wasting" powder and primers fireforming.

You really can't begin to develop loads until the case is in its final form, so I prefer to spend 3 cents on a primer and 6 cents on a few grains of powder, rather than 3 cents on a primer, 15 cents on powder and 30 cents on a bullet, plus the gas and time to go to the range for fireforming.
 
Andy said:
Another view on "wasting" powder and primers fireforming.

You really can't begin to develop loads until the case is in its final form, so I prefer to spend 3 cents on a primer and 6 cents on a few grains of powder, rather than 3 cents on a primer, 15 cents on powder and 30 cents on a bullet, plus the gas and time to go to the range for fireforming.
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:agree:
 
I had to fireform some 7.62x51 to chamber in a French 7.5x54 rifle. I had a .30cal ammo can of mixed corroded and ugly ammo from Marstar. So I pulled the .30 Carbine bullets, tipped the same powder into the candidate case, tightly packed in the cotton batting and seated the bullet. The bullet held the pressure up. The packing kept the powder against the primer. The next job is to anneal the necks before more serious shooting.
 
Andy said:
Another view on "wasting" powder and primers fireforming.

You really can't begin to develop loads until the case is in its final form, so I prefer to spend 3 cents on a primer and 6 cents on a few grains of powder, rather than 3 cents on a primer, 15 cents on powder and 30 cents on a bullet, plus the gas and time to go to the range for fireforming.
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Yesssireee that nine cents goes a long way when 250 gr barnes are $1 per. Plus I want to chrono and see what kind of group I can get with the improved case.
 
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