Firing cartridges designed for African game for no good reason.

[daddylonglegs]

Recoil is a very subjective thing. I am 6'6" tall & weigh close to 300 lb. You might think that would make it easier to absorb big recoil. Not so! With the increased inertia caused by my frame size, my shoulder has absorbed a lot more recoil energy before it rocks me back. Way back in 1987 a gunshop in Edmonton had a used Weatherby Mark V Deluxe in 460 Weatherby that they could not seem to sell. They came up with an innovative contest to sell this rifle. For an entry fee of $100. each & a limited pool of 20 shooters, each contestant got to take 3 shots at a target @ 50 yds with the mighty 460. Each contestant also got 2 beer & a T-bone steak to barbeque on the grill afterward. I and 2 friends from Unity, Sask. paid our entry fee in advance. On the day of the shoot one of my friends couldn't make it due to work commitments, and asked me to shoot his place for him. I had never shot anything bigger than a .375 H&H to that point. On the day of the shoot, I placed 1st & 3rd (shooting for my friend) & my other friend from Unity placed 2nd. I came home with a Weatherby Mark V Deluxe 460, 3 boxes of fired brass from the shoot & 2 extra boxes of factory ammo for a total investment of $200. (I refunded my absent friend his entry fee).

I have owned & shot .375 H&H, .375 Weatherby, .378 Weatherby, .416 Rigby, .458 Win Mag,, .458 Lott, & 460 Weatherby. Of all of them only 2 were painful to shoot off the bench. The 460 Weatherby & the 458 Win ( it was the only factory Sako Fiberclass ever made & it weighed Just over 8 lb. scoped).

Managing recoil is mostly a state of mind. In the Weatherby Guide Annuals, you can see pictures of small women standing on the elephant they just shot with a 460. I approached my first time with the idea that if they could do it, so could I.

 

[freire]

For those in the know... How does the 37H&H or the .416 stack up in terms of recoil compared to 3"shotgun slugs or 3.5" magnum loads ? How much of a step up are we talking?

No experience with the .416s but i would rather shoot my .375 H&H with 300 grs pills at almost 2700 fps than 3"shotgun slugs or 3.5" magnum loads.

 

[Superbrad]

Fwiw, I have taken a handful of whitetail with a .375 H&H........ Results were similar, if not identical to the ones I have taken with .308 And .30-06 given a broadside shot....... Nothing spectacular......

 

[rci2950]

Just be aware that you may have issues mounting the Nikon without offset rings....... I have a couple of rifles with a prostaff on them myself and they are modern short tube scopes...... Let me know if you need some offsets, I have a few sets of weavers hanging around......

I should be asking, is there a particular scope I should be putting on it? I am not set on the Nikon. What would be a better fit?

 

[Superbrad]

I should be asking, is there a particular scope I should be putting on it? I am not set on the Nikon. What would be a better fit?

Pick the scope you want........ Then mount accordingly........ Don't do the reverse...... There is a plethora of mounts out there that will support anything reliably......

 

[jethunter]

Well after MUCH discussion with some groups on Facebook and other local people I have changed course and went with 9.3x57 I have a source of reloading components and factory ammo and my local gunsmith is well versed in the model of rifle and calibre I chose. I will be using it for moose, black bear and possibly white tail this season. Should be more then enough. once it arrives it will be getting a new Nikon prostaff scope. I hope it works out. Here is a pic of the actual rifle from the tradex site I placed the order from it is a Husqvarna Commercial M96 sporter. From everything I was wanting. This makes a lot more sense then the .416. This 9.3x57 is bigger then what my buddies are using right now and nobody I hunt with has even heard of it. so good!

Beautiful rifle, the M46 Husqvarna. I've read that the actions were actually made by Carl Gustaf and sold to Husqvarna.

My rifle is identical to yours. I loaded a 280 gr cast bullet up to 2200 fps and it shot well except impact was right and low at 100 yds. I backed the load down in steps and got POI and POA aligned at 100 yds with 1800 fps velocity. IMR4895 at 37 gr was my final load. 8x57 brass necks up to 9.3x57 very easily - PRVI brass works well. The Norma brass is getting way to expensive.

I have another 9.3x57 in a M98 mauser that will be getting the hotter loads and it is scoped. Won't need to get the iron sights regulated with the load.

 

[NL-Hunter]

My .375 is a pussycat, but it's a 9 pound rifle........ If I compare it to shooting a 3" slug from a Cooey single, I woukd pretty much call it a draw.......

Slug from a single Cooey would probably jump a little more.

I read stories about the .375 before I actually got it and I was surprised at how well it behaved. The 9 LBS makes it comfortable to shoot.

 

[BigUglyMan]

C-fbmi, thank you for the opinion you posted above ^^^

How do you feel the .458 win mag firing 500gr factory loads at +2000 fps fits into the recoil scale? Everything I've read so far tells me it isn't the worst but is still at the high end for recoil.

Sorry for the hi-jack but I just impulse bought a Ruger #1 in .458 win and must admit I'm scared to fire it. It came with a box of shells of which only 3 were fired....

Funny, when I bought my #1H 458WM it also came with a part box of ammo. I gleefully used it to bust rocks in the Chilcotin and just generally shoot at stuff. It's enthusiastic but not unspeakable recoil. One day I was shooting with Rosie and tried out his 223. I realized after the first shot that, while I didn't have a flinch, I did have really good trigger control and was holding that rifle very firmly. So my subconscious mind knew that it should expect recoil but it wasn't telling my body to be afraid of it. That is where you want to end up.

 

[Iron Sighted]

For those in the know... How does the 37H&H or the .416 stack up in terms of recoil compared to 3"shotgun slugs or 3.5" magnum loads? How much of a step up are we talking?

I find my 375 Ruger shooting Hornady factory 300gr DGX rounds to be noticeably more mild than my shotgun with a 12.5" barrel shooting 3" 1.25oz slugs. My rifle with scope is likely 3lbs heavier with a better recoil pad and a stock that just fits me better too though. I was definitely expecting the 375 to be a lot worse recoiling than it actually is, now I plan to use it as my primary hunting rifle for pretty much all game. I swear my buddies 300WSM Savage Weather Warrior shooting 150gr bullets had a sharper, less comfortable recoil.

 

[jethunter]

I didn't find the 458 to be a heavy recoiler. My 6.5 lb 9.3x57 is more likely to be painful if you get sloppy.

I bought 3 boxes of winchester ammo on the EE - 58 loaded cartridges and 2 fired. he had an almost new Zastava 458 for sale as well.

 

[tigrr]

Awe man you should of bought a 50 cal and took the muzzle brake off!!

 

[Boomer]

C-fbmi, thank you for the opinion you posted above ^^^

How do you feel the .458 win mag firing 500gr factory loads at +2000 fps fits into the recoil scale? Everything I've read so far tells me it isn't the worst but is still at the high end for recoil.

Sorry for the hi-jack but I just impulse bought a Ruger #1 in .458 win and must admit I'm scared to fire it. It came with a box of shells of which only 3 were fired....

One must be cautious when commenting on the power of a factory .458/500. The Federal Premium Safari I chronographed out of my M-70 had more in common with .45-70 velocities, 1950 fps, whereas my handloads with 500 gr Interlocks broke 2150 fps from my 21" barrel, and might have bumped up against 2200 from the more common 24" tube. I don't consider a .458 to be a particularly hard kicker, but when loaded with heavy bullets there is lots of muzzle climb.

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

If one enjoys hunting & plinking with big bores, it's hard to fault many of them as far as being too much gun for folks that handload. Cost of rifles and components factor in for folks on a budget, let alone the cost of factory ammo. I've had 4 rifles in .458 Win Mag and used them for deer,bear & running deer meat shoots. They all shot well with the reduced loads I worked up for them & were easy on my shoulder. I will end up with another .458 WM when I find a BRNO ZKK 602 in prime shape.

I've treated most all of my rifles as "big pellet guns" with loads that a lot of folks would call wimpy, but in fact have proven most adequate for the job inside the ranges I use them at and for the game intended. Worked up a sub-sonic load for my .375 H&H Browning Stalker that routinely went inside 1" at 80 yds.(5 shot groups) and dumped deer without any worries at all using 270 gr. Hornady soft points. Zilch meat damage to boot. Never recovered the bullets either as they just sailed through the buggers & into the bush. Coastal blacktails ain't big by mainland standards, but I wouldn't hesitate whacking a fat mule deer or black bear with that load from a stand or stalk inside 100 yds.

I'm having fun with my recent 9.3x57 Husqvarna 46a these days with a load that tosses 280 gr. Bullet Barn RNFP hard cast at 1300 fps. that puts 'em in right around 2" at 80 yds. and is a joy to shoot as well as being a delight to carry through the woods. This be the rifle that replaced my beloved .375 Winchester Big Bore 94 that served me so well before.
View attachment 58894

Most any of the African chamberings can be tamed down by careful & judicious handloading methods to suit
the shooter's needs and experience, but I would not prefer to go any bigger than the 8 bore BP cartridge double rifle for anything other than just fooking around at the range or maybe from a tree stand over bait.

 

[Kevan]

The big rifles can be a whole bunch of fun with less than maximum loads, most if not all of my different .458 bullets meant for 45-70s shot very well in my .458 just to name one example.
Now hopefully a certain 500 Jeffery will arrive before the imminent Postal strike and then the search begins for a cast bullet source or a mould....or both..

 

[tokguy]

Well after MUCH discussion with some groups on Facebook and other local people I have changed course and went with 9.3x57 I have a source of reloading components and factory ammo and my local gunsmith is well versed in the model of rifle and calibre I chose. I will be using it for moose, black bear and possibly white tail this season. Should be more then enough. once it arrives it will be getting a new Nikon prostaff scope. I hope it works out. Here is a pic of the actual rifle from the tradex site I placed the order from it is a Husqvarna Commercial M96 sporter. From everything I was wanting. This makes a lot more sense then the .416. This 9.3x57 is bigger then what my buddies are using right now and nobody I hunt with has even heard of it. so good!

I spoke of my 9.3 x 57's performance on elk in the local gun store the other day and the president of the local Rifle and Revolver club kinda looked at me sideways and asked " A what...? "
Mine is great for hunting on the creek where the distances are shorter for the average shot. I find it's a tad brisk too, not 375 'Big slow push'...just brisk.
Around here big bore is 45-70, a big gun is an 8mm STW or such IMO. Prairie, what can you do?

 

[MajorMalcontent]

Just throwing this out for giggles: in the 80's and early 90's I had a Ruger #3 in 45-70. It weighed under 6.5 lbs. At the time my dad was into experimenting with extremely heavy 45-70 loads in his #1, loads that were almost duplicating .458WM factory stuff at the time. For fun, we decided to see how these would compare in my #3. My buttstock had a rubber recoil pad on it, and whenever I was shooting heavier stuff form the bench I always wore (still have) a Past Magnum recoil pad. Here are the results we got; I still have my handloading records going back to the 80's. By way of interest, I got about 25fps higher velocity in my #3 than he did in his #1.

Talk about recoil! That little beast weighed less than 7.5 lbs with the Scopechief VI 1.5-4 I had on it I've since replaced it with a #1S in the same calibre. The #1 is still a relatively light rifle for heavy kicking loads, IMO.

 

[sherlockbonez]

Maybe the extra speed came from the gun flying backwards away from the bullet at an incredible pace. Lol

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

Just throwing this out for giggles: in the 80's and early 90's I had a Ruger #3 in 45-70. It weighed under 6.5 lbs. At the time my dad was into experimenting with extremely heavy 45-70 loads in his #1, loads that were almost duplicating .458WM factory stuff at the time. For fun, we decided to see how these would compare in my #3. My buttstock had a rubber recoil pad on it, and whenever I was shooting heavier stuff form the bench I always wore (still have) a Past Magnum recoil pad. Here are the results we got; I still have my handloading records going back to the 80's. By way of interest, I got about 25fps higher velocity in my #3 than he did in his #1.

Talk about recoil! That little beast weighed less than 7.5 lbs with the Scopechief VI 1.5-4 I had on it I've since replaced it with a #1S in the same calibre. The #1 is still a relatively light rifle for heavy kicking loads, IMO.

I'm in the same boat as far as whomping away with the No.3 in .45-70, plus I had the same scope on mine as yours.(Wish Bushnell still made 'em!) Got my first black bear with mine back in '74 near Port Hardy. On my one, I just used a Pachmayr slip-on pad to help tame the whack. These ain't rifles you want to shoot much from the bench, even with loads meant for trap door Springfields.

My big load back then used a 535 gr. hard cast boolit from my lyman mould that pushed them out just above 1500 fps. using 39 gr. of IMR 4198. Now that I'm an old fook, my best friend is my PAST recoil shield.

 

[jethunter]

I'm in the same boat as far as whomping away with the No.3 in .45-70, plus I had the same scope on mine as yours.(Wish Bushnell still made 'em!) Got my first black bear with mine back in '74 near Port Hardy. On my one, I just used a Pachmayr slip-on pad to help tame the whack. These ain't rifles you want to shoot much from the bench, even with loads meant for trap door Springfields.

My big load back then used a 535 gr. hard cast boolit from my lyman mould that pushed them out just above 1500 fps. using 39 gr. of IMR 4198. Now that I'm an old fook, my best friend is my PAST recoil shield.

I find that the slipon recoil pad works well for bench shooting my 458 mainly because it increases LOP by a bit more than 1.25 inch which would benefit most people shooting from a bench.

 

[Coachgun67]

I'm also using 45/70 Level 2 and 3 loads, getting the 405r up to 2300 fps...but last week I learned I was stomped by the mighty .223,must be a hell of a cartridge...Ask Gersh Kuntzman...

CG