First Focal Plane VS Second Focal Plane

TRG-42 said:
I have slowly gone over to FFP for target / hunting scopes over the years

For me, its for holdovers at any power .

Lots of guys will flame me for this, trying to mil for range when hunting seldom works as advertised

If you are reaching out that far , an range estimation error trying to mil a "guesstimated " size animal , not to mention the time it takes seldom is conducive for real world hunting

Not sure how far you plan to reach out, but if you look at ballistic table, you can clearly see the dope for example, between 500 and 525 yards is significant . Most guys will not be able to mil a animal for range that accurately and quickly

Real world example, I watched my whitetail last year for 2 hours . He popped out at least 5 different times at various locations between . Way easier to hit him with laser rangfinder and just hold over or dial come ups IMO

Had a Nightforce 5-22X 2ndFP with NR-R2 recticle. Problem is to use this recticle for holdovers , its calibration is at 22X which is way to high power most of the time for hunting

Went with FFP and never looked back

I do play around ranging with recticle when shooting gongs / targets unknown distance for practice , but IMO in most hunting situations I generally have more pressing things to figure out, so easier to use laser

When shooting unknown distance gongs / targets its nice to be able to spot buddy with mil recticle at any power and call his shots ( scope with MRAD adjustments makes life easy....no idea why anyone would want mil recticle with MOA adjustments ! )

Reticle Thickness

Again, different if you are shooting paper for wee groups, but having used FFP ( 4 different reticles of various thicknesses ) I never think that recticle is covering too much (especially hunting )

You need to take it out and play in the field ...looking through scope in shop won't give you best idea

Often and dusk / dawn I appreciate the heavier reticle .

Having said that, when its that dark , you are seldom at max power anyways so its a moot point
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agreed, this my experience as well.
 
^^^^ This.

Plus owning Burris Veracity's with their progressive crosshair (fat out at the edge and taper in towards the middle) cures the problem of uber-fat hair's when you dial up the zoom.

burris-ballistic-e1-ffp-reticle.png
 
For Mr Bile:

"True ranging" means the mag setting at which the reticle's sub tensions can be trusted for holdovers or to estimate your range to target without a laser Finder (without doing even more math).

My S&B PMII 12-50 2FP is an example of a scope where true ranging IS NOT max, it's true at 25x. The new vortex 60x 2FP is another, it's true at 40x. The NF comp 55x 2FP is also true at 40x.

These things I am certain of, because I contacted S&B in Germany since the NA distributor was f-Ing hopeless.

There's lots of opinion and controversy. Read some one the other threads. Lots of very experienced people have lots of different opinions. My take on it is that not all FFP scopes are the same in terms of reticle size and thickness at full power.

You're right, there are a lot of people spouting off and confusing the matter. Perhaps they should start ASKING instead of TELLING.

Any other questions?

GGG
 
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Bile said:
Yes, can you clarify this. This sentence makes no sense to me. Are you saying different scopes with varying reticles are not the same for FFP optics or are you saying that FFP reticle thickness varies as the magnification changes?

There is no argument regarding this topic, thus it's not a controversy. What FFP optics do and what 2FP optics do are pretty much set in stone.
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I don't understand what you are asking.

In an FFP scope, thickness RELATIVE to what you are looking at absolutely stays the same. Thickness in the circle that the user is seeing absolutely changes.

At lower powers some FFP reticles are almost useless because they are so small you can hardly see the reticle.

Some FFP scopes block out part of the edges of the reticle at high powers, like I posted above.

How FFP and 2FP functions is indeed set in stone. How the manufacturer chooses to size the reticle, and the type of reticle, varies.

There is argument, therefore controversy. Some say FFP is great for hunting (like me), others say it sucks. Some will only do 2FP for target (like me and Rick), and you like FFP for target. Fair enough.

I suppose it shouldn't be an argument, but rather a discussion about the pros and cons, so let's make it that, OK?

Many of us aren't dumb here, and many have valid points. Those that don't understand should ask, not tell. Those that can't explain clearly, should humbly state their opinion or
understanding, and wait for confirmation.
 
Yes, for sure.

Some of this stuff is hard to explain without pics.

Does anyone have one of those scope adapters for their iPhone that they could take a demonstration vid of FFP and 2FP with???
 
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