First Grizzly tag ever!

[Tehoke01]

It seems that to you, Hunting= Killing.

Pretty sad.

Uhh, yeah it does because that IS THE PURPOSE - Kill the animal so you can eat it.

I don't romanticize it, It's killing - PERIOD.

But I believe it is ok to kill animals to eat, i.e. hunting. (and for a few other reasons).

So to sum up;

Killing wild animals for food = Hunting.
Killing domesticated animals for food = Slaughtering.
Killing Animals that are beyond/out of reach of veterinary services = Euthenasia/Putting down
Killing animals that are attacking you = Self defence

In the end it all comes down to the same thing Killing for a reason.

 

[Boomer]

I'd agree with you if you use a spear or knife to take the bear, that would be scary as sh*t and I'd give anyone doing alone it less than 50% chance of coming back...

...but using a .30 cal. or larger not too impressive IMO.

Yes I've been camping and/or hunting several times in BC when grizzlies were about and yes I could have killed one or more of them, but they didn't bother me so why the hell should I shoot and kill one of them? I don't care what you say - I've never found it difficult or challenging to kill an animal with a rifle.

But I will admit that the first time I killed an animal it was "for fun" - I shot a brown chickadee when I was 7 with my crossman pump air rifle. Also the first time I shot a moose it was "exciting" but then I was 15, it was the first time hunting anything larger than myself. Like I said - I was 15, I still thought it was "cool" to kill something.

Every hunt after that though was nothing exciting and the outcome was never in doubt, well there were a few times we came home with nothing but when an animal was deemed to be worth killing we shot it. We hauled it out, butchered it and ate it for the rest of the year.

Like I said everyone has their own things that give them the "jollies", killing for "excitement" just doesn't work for me. I hunt for food and admittedly, for the time spent outdoors with family and friends.

Apparently you get nothing out of being in wild country, of crisp mornings, or of the smells and sights associated with that. Your heart doesn't pound when you stalk game, for you it is shopping, you are to be pitied.

But perhaps you've never heard the sound of the float plane fade into the distance and the silence envelop you. Perhaps you've never strained to see that distant shape that appears then disappears only to reappear again through snow squalls. You don't feel the satisfaction of a well made shot, and see the animal fall even before you hear the sound of the bullet impact. You've never peered through binoculars to see if that's the one, or just another to be passed in your quest for the right animal. You have never passed up any reasonable shot, just to watch the game in marvel, you've always taken the first opportunity; so what can that be but killing?

I also take from this that you do not see hunting as a game management tool. That you don't understand how the money from license fees is used for or how it benefits the game we hunt. As long as you have meat in the freezer, why would you care? You view is narrow and your experience is shallow. Killing is what they do at Canada Packers. Those folks are in the business of producing food. Hunting is so much more than that, but perhaps you would sleep better at night if you simply shopped at Safeway.

 

[Scott_N]

Uhh, yeah it does because that IS THE PURPOSE - Kill the animal so you can eat it.

I don't romanticize it, It's killing - PERIOD.

But I believe it is ok to kill animals to eat (and for a few other reasons).

If someone is involved in a legal hunt, I'm sure they don't care what others think is "moral" or right. If you don't agree with hunting grizzly bears, don't do it. If someone wants to hunt grizzly bears legally, what right do you have to criticize him / her, just because it's "not your style"?

 

[bukee]

I was starting to write my own reply to 'the butcher' but I couldn't put it any better than boomer. Good job and well written. ditto the above.

 

[350 Mag]

Tehoke.

Sounds like getting a tag is a once in a lifetime thing.

I am sure the Grizzly Bear Population can handle 1 hunter possibly shooting one in his/her lifetime....and possibly not getting another chance for years.


P.S


You are right that if you did it with any kind of primitive weapon like Bow, Crossbow or MuzzleLoader it would make it much more challenging.

But on a once in a lifetime hunt I think I would be picking up a rifle as well.

 

[bcsteve]

Apparently you get nothing out of being in wild country, of crisp mornings, or of the smells and sights associated with that. Your heart doesn't pound when you stalk game, for you it is shopping, you are to be pitied.

But perhaps you've never heard the sound of the float plane fade into the distance and the silence envelop you. Perhaps you've never strained to see that distant shape that appears then disappears only to reappear again through snow squalls. You don't feel the satisfaction of a well made shot, and see the animal fall even before you hear the sound of the bullet impact. You've never peered through binoculars to see if that's the one, or just another to be passed in your quest for the right animal. You have never passed up any reasonable shot, just to watch the game in marvel, you've always taken the first opportunity; so what can that be but killing?

I also take from this that you do not see hunting as a game management tool. That you don't understand how the money from license fees is used for or how it benefits the game we hunt. As long as you have meat in the freezer, why would you care? You view is narrow and your experience is shallow. Killing is what they do at Canada Packers. Those folks are in the business of producing food. Hunting is so much more than that, but perhaps you would sleep better at night if you simply shopped at Safeway.

Well written.

 

[Tehoke01]

Apparently you get nothing out of being in wild country, of crisp mornings, or of the smells and sights associated with that. Your heart doesn't pound when you stalk game, for you it is shopping, you are to be pitied.

But perhaps you've never heard the sound of the float plane fade into the distance and the silence envelop you. Perhaps you've never strained to see that distant shape that appears then disappears only to reappear again through snow squalls. You don't feel the satisfaction of a well made shot, and see the animal fall even before you hear the sound of the bullet impact. You've never peered through binoculars to see if that's the one, or just another to be passed in your quest for the right animal. You have never passed up any reasonable shot, just to watch the game in marvel, you've always taken the first opportunity; so what can that be but killing?

I also take from this that you do not see hunting as a game management tool. That you don't understand how the money from license fees is used for or how it benefits the game we hunt. As long as you have meat in the freezer, why would you care? You view is narrow and your experience is shallow. Killing is what they do at Canada Packers. Those folks are in the business of producing food. Hunting is so much more than that, but perhaps you would sleep better at night if you simply shopped at Safeway.

I have no trouble sleeping at night and I have shopped at Safeway as well.

Why would you assume I don't enjoy being outdoors based on our conversation so far?

Let's see, I believe hunting=killing for food (which is true no matter what you say) and I personally don't think killing for fun/excitement alone is right, therefore I must hate being outdoors, I can't properly select an animal to kill, I don't appreciate beauty in nature, I have no concept of conservation practices, I am small minded and am most likely a Vulcan from Startrek...

...hmm Sherlock Holmes you ain't.

 

[Boomer]

I have no trouble sleeping at night and I have shopped at Safeway as well.

Why would you assume I don't enjoy being outdoors based on our conversation so far?

Let's see, I believe hunting=killing for food (which is true no matter what you say) and I personally don't think killing for fun/excitement alone is right, therefore I must hate being outdoors, I can't properly select an animal to kill, I don't appreciate beauty in nature, I have no concept of conservation practices, I am small minded and am most likely a Vulcan from Startrek...

...hmm Sherlock Holmes you ain't.

What I do get from your posts is that hunting equates killing and has nothing to do with the events leading up to that final act. I suppose you have never heard: "One does not hunt in order to kill, one kills in order to have hunted." Killing is the completion of the act, but has little or nothing to do with why we are there in the first place.

Hunting should be an emotional experience. It is important. It is a big deal. Your attitude detracts from those realities. The comparison you have made to yourself with Spock is accurate in that you reduce hunting to an event of single dimension devoid of emotion, which is to kill an animal. Being selective is the providence of the trophy hunter rather than the meat hunter, so you can understand my confusion if you now claim to be a selective hunter.

 

[Tehoke01]

...If you don't agree with hunting grizzly bears, don't do it. If someone wants to hunt grizzly bears legally, what right do you have to criticize him / her, just because it's "not your style"?

I only asked the OP if he was going to eat it...

...not once did I say he was a fool or evil or anything like that, I did say I don't personally adhere to his way of thinking and don't agree with it.

So what I'm allowed that just as he is allowed to think and do as he wishes.

If he didn't expect people to have differing opinions and didn't want to engage in a discussion about it he could have ignored my question.

As for "Boomer", well he has his views and I have mine and they don't agree, oh well, arguing can be fun too.

 

['Boo]

Let's see, I believe hunting=killing for food (which is true no matter what you say) and I personally don't think killing for fun/excitement alone is right, therefore I must hate being outdoors, I can't properly select an animal to kill, I don't appreciate beauty in nature, I have no concept of conservation practices, I am small minded and am most likely a Vulcan from Startrek...

I assume you also hold varmint hunters in disdain? How about trappers? Do you have feelings of contempt for them as well?

No, I think in your mind you are the centre of the universe and the whole world should bow to your brand of ethics that are much superior to to those of anyone else on this forum.

 

[Noel]

Apparently you get nothing out of being in wild country, of crisp mornings, or of the smells and sights associated with that. Your heart doesn't pound when you stalk game, for you it is shopping, you are to be pitied.

But perhaps you've never heard the sound of the float plane fade into the distance and the silence envelop you. Perhaps you've never strained to see that distant shape that appears then disappears only to reappear again through snow squalls. You don't feel the satisfaction of a well made shot, and see the animal fall even before you hear the sound of the bullet impact. You've never peered through binoculars to see if that's the one, or just another to be passed in your quest for the right animal. You have never passed up any reasonable shot, just to watch the game in marvel, you've always taken the first opportunity; so what can that be but killing?

I also take from this that you do not see hunting as a game management tool. That you don't understand how the money from license fees is used for or how it benefits the game we hunt. As long as you have meat in the freezer, why would you care? You view is narrow and your experience is shallow. Killing is what they do at Canada Packers. Those folks are in the business of producing food. Hunting is so much more than that, but perhaps you would sleep better at night if you simply shopped at Safeway.

And the congregation all said AMEN.

 

[Tehoke01]

What I do get from your posts is that hunting equates killing and has nothing to do with the events leading up to that final act. I suppose you have never heard: "One does not hunt in order to kill, one kills in order to have hunted." Killing is the completion of the act, but has little or nothing to do with why we are there in the first place.

Hunting should be an emotional experience. It is important. It is a big deal. Your attitude detracts from those realities. The comparison you have made to yourself with Spock is accurate in that you reduce hunting to an event of single dimension devoid of emotion, which is to kill an animal. Being selective is the providence of the trophy hunter rather than the meat hunter, so you can understand my confusion if you now claim to be a selective hunter.

I am selective because I don't NEED the meat to survive(well not right now anyway), as I have said, I have experience shopping at Safeway, IGA, etc.

I do hunt because I like the meat I get when I do get it and it does save my family from spending money on meat from the market when I am successful.

If all I wanted was to experience the beauty and emotion of being in the woods and following an animal, why the hell would I lug around a rifle?

I mean you said "Killing is the completion of the act, but has little or nothing to do with why we are there in the first place.", if that is the case just go and stalk the animal and then let it go, wait half an hour and do it all over again.

To you getting food by killing an animal is an afterthought...

...to myself, the things I might experience along the way are the afterthoughts.

But to let you know that I am human, I do enjoy hunting with friends and family even when I don't get anything...

...want me to prove it by pouring my heart out about the time I was standing on a ridge looking over a small valley and saw a mother bear with her cubs, I watched for a whole hour, it was so touching...

...crying yet "Boomer", I mean, It was just so life affirming...

...Christ!, go watch W or something. LOL.

 

[Scott_N]

I only asked the OP if he was going to eat it...

...not once did I say he was a fool or evil or anything like that, I did say I don't personally adhere to his way of thinking and don't agree with it.

So what I'm allowed that just as he is allowed to think and do as he wishes.

If he didn't expect people to have differing opinions and didn't want to engage in a discussion about it he could have ignored my question.

As for "Boomer", well he has his views and I have mine and they don't agree, oh well, arguing can be fun too.

Fair enough, you didn't say that the original poster was a fool or evil in so many words, but you seem to put him down for a legal hunt in post #65 in this thread. Maybe that's just the way I understood your message.

If I may, can I ask how you would feel about something like shooting gophers? While most people that shoot them do it because "it's fun," their are legitimate reasons to rid the land of pests. No one eats them, but killing them is actually valuable.

Obviously shooting gophers is different than hunting grizzly bears, but there are legitimate reasons for hunting bears. If by law he doesn't have to eat the bear, what difference does it make if he kills one? Management of wildlife is important, and hunting is a vital part of wildlife management.

 

[Gatehouse]

Hunting Grizzly bears? - guess I don't...

...but are you trying to tell me you can't kill a Grizzly bear from 75+ yards using something .30 or larger?

I've killed moose like that and much closer...

...now if you tell me that it says in the "Grizzly hunting code" that one has to stalk to within 25' of one before shooting, well then I will concede that you are correct, it would be dangerous and scary.

Sure you can kill a grizzly bear from 75 yards away with a rifle. Unfortunately you seem focused only on the actual shooting of the animal. The hunt is much more than the shooting.

Not to mention that when you shoot at a grizzly, you are picking a fight with an animal that is capable of killing you if something goes wrong.

Uhh, yeah it does because that IS THE PURPOSE - Kill the animal so you can eat it.

I don't romanticize it, It's killing - PERIOD.

But I believe it is ok to kill animals to eat, i.e. hunting. (and for a few other reasons).

So to sum up;

Killing wild animals for food = Hunting.
Killing domesticated animals for food = Slaughtering.
Killing Animals that are beyond/out of reach of veterinary services = Euthenasia/Putting down
Killing animals that are attacking you = Self defence

In the end it all comes down to the same thing Killing for a reason.

Your definition if hunting = killing- PERIOD is pretty pathetic.

The PURPOSE of my hunting is to go hunting. It may result in a dead animal but the PURPOSE is to experience hunting.

When I slaughter livestock, or put down an animal, there is no pleasure, no emotion, no excitement. It's a distinctly different process than embarking on a hunting trip.

Hunting grizzly bears has been one of the most exciting things I've ever done. This time it will be more exciting, since it's my tag.

Unless you have done it (or hunted some other dangerous game) then you really can't fathom what the "purpose" of it is. It's like saying the purpose of recreational parachuting is to get to the ground.

 

[H4831]

Time for my two cents worth. Boomer, you made the following statement-----
"Perhaps you've never strained to see that distant shape that appears then disappears only to reappear again through snow squalls."

The most memorable hunting scene for me, from a long list to choose from, is something that has happened more than once. Closing in on the pure white goats in beautiful mountains, well above timberline. I have glassed them carefully, as they fed in the sunshine, on the lichens of what seems like a barren slope. Then, seemingly like out of nowhere, the fog rolls in.
That last glimpse of the goats fading away, with the peaks behind still in the sunshine, is absolutely awe inspiring. You think you are in a dream, it couldn't be like this, this is a different world, this is a world of mystic. How did you get here?
After you decide it is for real, you realize you won't come across your partner, somewhere else on the mountain. you must now get back to camp on a completely clouded in moutain. It won't be easy, but that last look at the goats as they disappear in the mist, will never be forgotten.

 

[Tehoke01]

I assume you also hold varmint hunters in disdain? How about trappers? Do you have feelings of contempt for them as well?

No, I think in your mind you are the centre of the universe and the whole world should bow to your brand of ethics that are much superior to to those of anyone else on this forum.

Well, let's see most people I know that Varmint hunt do so to eradicate animals that are either endangering their livelihood or are destroying property...

...if you have a problem with that let's hear it.

As for trappers most of the ones that I know trap for the same reason varmint hunters hunt - as for the ones who trap to make money off of pelts, well they have to earn a living as well right?

And no, I'm not the center even to MY universe, my family is the center to my universe...

...and if you can't read properly, or simply can't understand, I did say that the things I think are what I think, not what I expect others to do.

Are you telling me you do not have personal ideas or beliefs that differ from other people...

...if you don't, what are you a f'ing sheep?, and if you do and are afraid to speak them, what are you a coward?, and if you do and speak them aloud(or write them for others to see), I guess by your standards you are narcissistic, hmm?

 

[Boomer]

If all I wanted was to experience the beauty and emotion of being in the woods and following an animal, why the hell would I lug around a rifle?

Well I guess you're just not a gun guy, or maybe you live where its not legal to do so. I can so I do, often in excess of 200 days a year.

you said "Killing is the completion of the act, but has little or nothing to do with why we are there in the first place.", if that is the case just go and stalk the animal and then let it go, wait half an hour and do it all over again.

I do, often, as that is the only way to legally hunt polar bears here.

But to let you know that I am human, I do enjoy hunting with friends and family even when I don't get anything...

...want me to prove it by pouring my heart out about the time I was standing on a ridge looking over a small valley and saw a mother bear with her cubs, I watched for a whole hour, it was so touching...

...crying yet "Boomer", I mean, It was just so life affirming...

...Christ!, go watch W or something. LOL.

Now you claim to have experienced something wonderful and memorable, yet you choose to denigrate the importance of your own experience. Why would that be?

 

[350 Mag]

Sure you can kill a grizzly bear from 75 yards away with a rifle. Unfortunately you seem focused only on the actual shooting of the animal. The hunt is much more than the shooting.

Not to mention that when you shoot at a grizzly, you are picking a fight with an animal that is capable of killing you if something goes wrong.


Not to attack you or anything...

But we all know your a good shot, and being that you are using a .375 Ruger which packs more punch than a 375 H&H this part about the Bear fighting back is a little funny.

The Bear has NO chance at all...unless you miss....and if he is close enough not to allow a follow up shot.

Good Luck!

 

[Tehoke01]

Well I guess you're just not a gun guy, or maybe you live where its not legal to do so. I can so I do, often in excess of 200 days a year.



I do, often, as that is the only way to legally hunt polar bears here.



Now you claim to have experienced something wonderful and memorable, yet you choose to denigrate the importance of your own experience. Why would that be?

Ok...

 

[Gatehouse]

Sure you can kill a grizzly bear from 75 yards away with a rifle. Unfortunately you seem focused only on the actual shooting of the animal. The hunt is much more than the shooting.

Not to mention that when you shoot at a grizzly, you are picking a fight with an animal that is capable of killing you if something goes wrong.


Not to attack you or anything...

But we all know your a good shot, and being that you are using a .375 Ruger which packs more punch than a 375 H&H this part about the Bear fighting back is a little funny.

The Bear has NO chance at all...unless you miss....and if he is close enough not to allow a follow up shot.

Good Luck!

We all hope for a clean, quick killing shot that puts an animal down and out on the spot. But things have been known to get out of control from time to time