First Rifle Purchase: Norinco M305

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Mazzadonis

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Gentleman, I am posting here as I have reached a major conundrum. First and foremost I should state that I am seeking advice regarding a first firearm purchase. Until this day it was my intention to buy a Norinco M305 as my first rifle. Now before you get your knickers in a knot at the thought of that, read on please. It has been my all-time favourite firearm as far as things go aesthetically, and historically ever since I saw jolly boot camp privates like Forest Gump and Leonard Pyle assemble it with enthusiastic precision. One must wonder what it would be like to play ping-pong and eat donuts all with the assurance of your M14 stowed away safe in a footlocker, sitting there peacefully, yet unconditionally protective of your god-given right to wholesome American leisure.

I’m guessing some of you are still thinking - first firearm choice/semi-auto .308 = "you gon’ full retard son”

Allow me to explain my situation further. I have fair experience with firearms already, and I feel comfortable around their use and operation. For what it’s worth my PAL holding friends say I have good shooting habits and that I rarely flinch. I have shot well over 1000 rounds in various calibre’s including .22, 7.62x39, 12 gauge, and .30-30 with them and with my 6’2, 250 pound frame I feel that I am ready for a high-power cartridge. That being said, under normal circumstances my first choice for a rifle would be a 10/22 or a Cooey bolt .22 like many others here in Canada, but I am in the lucky position of being able to acquire both a 10/22 and an old break-action SxS from a friend by trade when my PAL comes back in the mail. For this reason my first choice for a PURCHASE will be something with a bit of zing. I apologize for the frkin’ novel I’m writing here, but I wanted it to be clear why I originally narrowed it down to an M305, not too mention all the obvious value. I intend for my first rifle to not only please aesthetically, “historically", and functionally, but also to serve equally as well as a paper puncher, and a beginner buck gun for shots in the bush between 100-300 yards.

Now to talk about the issue at hand. My local outfitter here in Victoria, BC has had for a while now a nice M305 shorty in that good looking Italian wood stock they offered briefly. Personally I prefer the classic appeal of the full sized barrel, but it is my understanding with .308 there is little difference in ballistics between an 18" and 22” barrel. The one at my store is a bit pricey compared to what they were selling for online, but at $899 vs. $2000+ for a Springfield, I don’t see the price as much of an issue.

The issue is the gun I saw today when I came in to pick-up a manual for the BC CORE. It immediately stood out at me in it’s quintessential imperialistic glory. The most immaculate Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.1 I had ever seen in person or on the webs. I couldn’t even believe it to be original at first sight, I thought it was one of those new production AIA .308’s. It was not, It was original/un-issued and the finest looking pop-stick I’de ever laid my big blue peepers on. It is my shame to say I was too awestruck to think of grabbing my phone and snapping a pic, but the thing was so goddamn good looking I’m not even sure the fella at the shop would of been comfortable with that. The closest thing I can liken it to would be the lower lightly-coloured Lee-Enfield on this page http://www.mindspring.com/~rmgill/britkit/weapons/no4.html but of a condition so pristine it was if I was looking through space and time to see my grandfather with his shouldered at arms length, marching his men down Yates Street before setting off for the English Channel.

So to cut a long story short, I am now incredibly torn between the 2 rifles. I only intend to buy 1 of the 2 in the foreseeable future and now I feel myself being inescapably pulled towards the .303 for it’s patriotic - colony whopping - nazi tromping- nostalgia value. It’s feel like I’m on a cloud where regularly paying $26.99 and up for a box wouldn’t even make my soul wince. I know there are more things to think about, but I’m in the Enfield-Cloud now and that $1000 dollar price tag just looks like a white feather dusting away unwarranted hands from touching what was made over 60 years ago for a man unborn.

I’m posting in this forum for a reason. Bring me back to my senses. Tell me I can’t afford the ammo. Tell me that lightning-fast Enfield action has nothing on the twang of a roughly-forged receiver chewing through crappy Chinese surplus. Tell me about your rifle, tell me about your gun. Which one is for fighting? Please omit stories of the one for fun.:cool::cool::cool:

Cheers!
 
Don't buy one! :eek:

Buy TWO of them M14's !!

You will not regret the purchase except for wishing that ya bought two of them back in the day. There are many M14 owners here who wish they had bought the two of them when they had the chance. No doubt that they are not as finely finished as the M1A from Springfield Armory but this Norinco or Polytechnic h will get you going in the addiction.

My best summary of these rifles is that they are a diamond in the rough and that's where tinkering and tweaking on your part comes in handy. Lots of good and helpful advice from many experts right here in our forum to be had. Many experts like 45acpking, oldsmobiler, and purple to be had. It's a great community. :)

Hope this helps. I have examined toes fine walnut stocked Norinco shorty rifles at my March Burlington clinic and I was impressed by that upgraded stock. It's a fondler.

Cheers and keep on helping them noooobs around here.
Barney
 
Welcome to our world!
The 2 rifles you mentioned both have historical connections. The Enfield, if what you say is correct, REALLY is historical and you probably won't want to shoot it. You can play with the bolt all day and fantasize about D-Day landings, El Alamein and Caan. However, like you said, .303 ammo is scarce and expensive to find. Also, the Enfield will kick more than the Norc.

For less money, the M305 is a good clone of the Springfield. Finish is suspect and some may not be as good as others. Fondle a few at the store then buy your favorite out of all of them. Surplus and Norc ammo is available and the recoil is easier on your shoulders as it is gas operated. Also, the rifle can be tac'ed out easily if you are into that sort of thing. But YOU WON't FEEL BAD shooting the thing.
If have moolah for both, then I say get both. Can't go wrong there. But if only $ for one....get the 305!
 
Still alive said:
...the M305 is a good clone of the Springfield.
Click to expand...

The USGI M14s made by Springfield Armory, not the M1A made by Springfield Armory, Inc.

102_3970.jpg
 
Mazzadonis, I'm going to offer a minority opinion. Welcome to the sport by the way, it sounds like you're already deeply hooked by a healthy passion for steel and wood.

Based solely on availability, I'd say that finding near-pristine Enfields is already a rarity and they're only going to get rarer as years go by. The M305 may be nearing the end of it's source supply, or maybe not, depending on who you ask, but there are certainly enough around to fuel the used market for many years to come. In your position if you feel torn between the two, I'd go for the one that's least likely to appear again and save up for a while for a 305.

Of course, being the impatient and impulsive individual I am, I'd do everything I could reasonably do to try to swing the both of them ;)
 
Welcome to the forum and to the sport. I love milsurps. I attended TacticalTeacher aka Barney's M14 and M1 Garand clinic in March. The wood stocked Norc M305 is really quite the looker. I have the polymer stocked version of the 22" M305. Great shooting rifle. My factory Norc sights are garbage, but those are easily replaced. I too have a love for the Enfield rifles. Having said that, I really don't feel like paying full price for factory ammo. Luckily I reload my own ammunition. If you do not, the .303 can get expensive. What I have done is consolidate my milsurp calibres to combat this. Now, I have many milsurps in 7.62x51 (308 Winchester). I recommend getting a milsurp bolt action in .308. You can even find Enfield DCRA match rifles chambered in 7.62x51. Whichever decision you make, you are sure to take your new purchases to the range and enjoy them!!!
 
The questions you should be asking yourself are:

- Semi or bolt?
- What *kind* of paper punching?
- Budget budget budget

Both actions offer different experiences. If you want to shoot competitively (at all -- SR, CQB, precision) then that will dictate your choice somewhat. How are you plinking at the range? Deliberate and precise or do you like to let 'er rip? Maybe bolt-action will be more "satisfying." I have a tube-fed Cooey model 60 .22 and it's great fun to shoot, plus it's only worth about a hundred bucks.

If you want to by a Norc 305, you can have them for $500-550 on the EE or even new in various local places. Canadian Tire, I've read, carries them here in Richmond. That's *half* the price of your Enfield.

Finally, ammo cost matters. After you buy a membership, eye and ear pro, all the crap you need to get your guns to the range and then clean them, optics, tacticool gear, etc. etc. ad nauseum you have to feed the beast. My 305 is costly to shoot. The best price I've ever bought ammo is $.50 a round. You can get Chinese surplus 7.62x51 from CanadaAmmo, but you're still paying $.45 a shot for stuff you can never reload.

In hindsight, I'd have been better served buying a Norc AR-clone or, (since you're planning to hunt) you might consider something like a Mini-14. Of course, I don't know anything about hunting, but I doubt there's much stuff you could shoot on the Island that would need more than a .223.
 
Buy the Lee Enfield first. It probably looks like this one?
DSCN9707-1.jpg


That would be an Irish Contract rifle. Shoots fabulously well.

I have the M305s, too, and both mine shot very well, right out of the box. If they don't work so well, it is fun to tinker with them.

If hunting is part of the requirement, the shorty is better. I painted the front post of mine florescent red and used it in a CQB match. Worked well.

Whichever you get first (and I know you will buy both) get a starter kit and laod for them. makes practice ammo cheap. And for most plinking, you do not need to load full power.
 
Sounds like your mind is made up, buy the Enfield. I had one and sold it, but it was no where near perfect condition, and it was sporterized unfortunately. My Mini 14 and my M305 are my favourite rifles atm but don't kick yourself later for not buying the Enfield. When you want to buy your second, the Nork will still be there.
 
To answer everyone else, it's a hard split. They are both high-powered centerfire cartridges with regular use in both recreational shooting and hunting. They are both in the same price bracket. I like both semi-auto and bolt actions for different reasons, and for the purpose of the argument I give them equal merits. I prefer to shoot slowly but the volume of what I would shoot I can only guess would be relative to the action and in that regard I would probably end up spending a similar amount on ammo. They both have an interesting history regardless of being new production or not. To be honest, if someone was making new production Lee-Enfields like AIA did in .308 or .30-06 I would probably purchase one of them if they had a lower price point. For me it's more about the object and less about the story. My questions now would be in regard to cleaning and operation. Which has the more reliable action? I understand bolt gun's clean better than gas operated actions hands down but is the M305 all that bad to clean? Also how do .303 ballistics hold up to .308 especially in regards to new production ammo?
 
Here's the big thing to consider, neither rifle is cheap to feed unless with the M305 you go with steel cases ammo for around 50 cents a pop. But as it's already been mentioned M305's are a dime a dozen. You can scoop one off the EE for around $500 and get a nice Boyd's walnut stock for it for maybe $200 more. A Lee Enfield on the other hand, Well they are out there but the prices and condition vary. Personally If you can afford it, I'd grab the Enfield now and later on grab an M305.
 
If U have no training on the M305 I would not suggest that U undertake this purchase until U have read everything possible on this web sight and in other web sights. The M305 has many pitfalls that can get your killed or injured if U are not familiar with them. For instance among the many no noes when handling the M14, U never ever throw a round in the chamber and allow the bolt to slam shut on the round. Always always load the weapon from the magazine box. That can get U killed and it has happened when the weapon slam fired out of battery. As I have stated before there are many different ways that U can be seriously hurt with the M305 if U are unaware. The M14 is not a rifle for a beginner no mater how much experience U have had with other firearms. Be safe and read everything before U pick one up and start shooting on the range.
 
eaglesnester said:
If U have no training on the M305 I would not suggest that U undertake this purchase until U have read everything possible on this web sight and in other web sights. The M305 has many pitfalls that can get your killed or injured if U are not familiar with them. For instance among the many no noes when handling the M14, U never ever throw a round in the chamber and allow the bolt to slam shut on the round. Always always load the weapon from the magazine box. That can get U killed and it has happened when the weapon slam fired out of battery. As I have stated before there are many different ways that U can be seriously hurt with the M305 if U are unaware. The M14 is not a rifle for a beginner no mater how much experience U have had with other firearms. Be safe and read everything before U pick one up and start shooting on the range.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity what are the other ways they can "get you killed"
 
OP. Of the two choices please do yourself the greatest of favours and buy the Lee Enfield. The M14-type rifles will be around for a while whereas the availability of pristine LE rifles has already dried up. So, go by the Enfield and when you are ready for another purchase look around for a Norc - check the EE and pick up a nice one or go to the store and get a new one; your choice.
 
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