First time reloading .45acp not snug in the barrel
- Thread starter Super_Chicken
- Start date
I am going to take the opposite view for some very good reasons.
The bore size for .45acp barrels is .451. Bullets, if they are lead are sized .452, plated and FMJ are usually .451. Lead bullets must be at least .001" over bore to ensure a good gas seal.
If you are seeing a slight bulge in your cases when you reload .45acp or any other handgun cartridge consider it normal. When you use the Lee FCD to smooth out the bulge you end up reducing the diameter of the bullet. Using lead bullets you will get increased gas cutting and leading as a result. For jacketed accuracy will be affected.
The FCD for handgun cartridges is a solution to a non-existant problem. Fior those shooting lead bullets and also using the FCD, pull one o your bullets after using the FCD and see the mess you made of the bullet. You might also want to check the diameter of the now resized bullet. If you are getting leading using lead bullets with the FCD you have your answer as to why.
Take Care
Bob
Although I agree re: lead bullets and FCD (swages the lead), the above statement is not always correct.
For example, putting .45acp into a 625 revolver after shooting it in a 1911 - it won't fit. FCD fixes that.
Glock'd brass going into a tighter chamber - fixes that. And so on. The FCD is a decent way to recondition brass that is bigger than it should be. Alternate, and slower, methods are the various push-through resizers and roll sizing.
I agree 100% with Bob, I reload 45 ACP without the Lee FCD and fire it in 3 pistols and a revolver and have never had a problem with chambering rounds. I have even reloaded obvious Glock bulged 40 S&W range brass without the Lee FCD and have never had a problem.
I agree with hk33ka1, this is probably the real problem.
My 45 ACP ammo is done with a taper crimp die set to make the case mouth 0.469" and all is good.
Try just running the cses through a regular sizing die. I had a 625 and all the brass I used for it came out of a 1911. No problems at all loading lead boolits sized .452 or jacketed/plated with a diameter of .451.
If you are loading .45acp with jacketed bullets they will drop right into a 625 if the cases are resized properly. Using the FCD on the cses will only swage down the size of the bullet which is not what you want. I use Dillon resizing Dies and Lee regular resizing dies with no problems at all.
The Lee FCD for rifle cases works completely different and is worth using. Sorry but I can't see any benefit in using the Lee FCD for handgun cartridges.
Take Care
Bob
If you are loading .45acp with jacketed bullets they will drop right into a 625 if the cases are resized properly. Using the FCD on the cses will only swage down the size of the bullet which is not what you want. I use Dillon resizing Dies and Lee regular resizing dies with no problems at all.
The Lee FCD for rifle cases works completely different and is worth using. Sorry but I can't see any benefit in using the Lee FCD for handgun cartridges.
Take Care
Bob
Did that, no joy. Same as another local 625 shooter. Given chamber tolerances etc. and that regular sizing dies do not get to the true base of the shells, sometimes the FCD (or push-through, or roll-sizers) are required.
That being the case I would use the FCd to resize the brass before loading. Deprime them and after seating the bullet use a regular taper crimp die to remove the bellign and apply a taper crimp.
If you shoot lead out of your revolver check the throats. They should be .358. Rugers are notorious for tight throats in the cylinders; S&W not so much although I have a K 38 with very tight throats, a situation I intend to change next week.
Take Care
Bob
Try seating your bullet deeper in the case. On some of the bullet designs the taper or ogive of the projectile is higher. Oal is something that will make your round fit in the magazine
When I load a new style bullet I make dummy rounds and test them in the magazine then test them for feed and function by moving the slide by hand. If it chambers and the hammer will drop then they are ok.
When I load a new style bullet I make dummy rounds and test them in the magazine then test them for feed and function by moving the slide by hand. If it chambers and the hammer will drop then they are ok.
- Location
- Niagara Region, Ontario. For now
This will only hold true if you are applying too much crimp!
If you are belling case mouths you need to just remove the bell on the case.
Seating the bullet will bring in some of the belling but on a tight chambered match barrel sometimes this is simply not enough!
Roll crimping .45 acp is apparently not a good idea(never tried though) as the cartridge head spaces on the case mouth, so what alternative is there?
Do a plunk test to figure out the max OAL for that particular bullet.
The plunk test is simple.
Point the barrel towards the floor and drop a round into it.
If it makes a plunk sound it's good.
Make dummy rounds starting at 1.255" and increase the length of each by 0.005" till it don't plunk.
If it doesn't plunk at 1.255" then it's a crimp problem.
The longest length I've used is 1.260" for Vhitavuori powders.
Winchester 231 uses a recommended OAL of 1.190"
The plunk test is simple.
Point the barrel towards the floor and drop a round into it.
If it makes a plunk sound it's good.
Make dummy rounds starting at 1.255" and increase the length of each by 0.005" till it don't plunk.
If it doesn't plunk at 1.255" then it's a crimp problem.
The longest length I've used is 1.260" for Vhitavuori powders.
Winchester 231 uses a recommended OAL of 1.190"
Have you ever used a Lee FCD for handgun cartridges? The way it works is it resized the entire case. It does not apply what we would normally refer to as a crimp. The end result is you end up with a smooth cartrdge with a swaged down bullet.
Take Care
Bob
The first is incorrect - the top stem, visible in the pic below, adjusts the amount of taper crimp, and is certainly a "normal" crimp. It's the post-sizing ring in the bottom of the die that takes out bulges etc. down to the base. It goes lower than a standard sizing die because standard sizing dies, particularly ones designed for progressives, have a significant bell at the bottom to ease case insertion.
The second statement is only correct in the case of lead, over-sized bullets (for .45ACP, .4525" instead of the jacketed standard of .451") with thick case walls (e.g., often Federal brass). Regular jacketed bullets with regular brass (e.g., Winchester) do not deform / swage.
Super_Chicken
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
I measured the case lengths. They are below the 0.898" spec, I think they were closer to 0.888.
I actually made a few rounds with a very small OAL (but barreled without any issues) The rounds looked weird, in that the bullets were seated very deep. At the range another member commented on how deep they were seated but said any higher and I wasn't getting then to fit. When I shot them they cycled and chambered properly.
I'll take a picture of a round tomorrow.
I'll try this tomorrow to see how far out I can back out the bullet to have it still fit. I'll keep you posted.
You can back it out so that it only applies a crimp.
For those that depend on the Lee Factory Crimp die to give the base of their loaded rounds that extra 'bump' - been there and done it;
Even they are limited in how far they go down. Eventually I went with EGW undersized dies (run them for 9mm and 40) or you can have a machinist shave the base of your existing sizing die.
My dillon dies gets the base of the 45 cases just fine.
- Location
- Halifax - NS
When you're encountering issues like this, the best thing to do is step back and check things one by one, treat the progressive like a single stage. Resize the case, try it in your barrel. If it works, that stage passes, move on... etc.
It's really easy to forget that the progressive is actually doing things one at a time. It looks like your issue was with the shape of the frontier bullet, rather than the case and had you have trouble shot step by step, you probably would have figured it out without people heading you off on the Lee FCD tangent.
It's really easy to forget that the progressive is actually doing things one at a time. It looks like your issue was with the shape of the frontier bullet, rather than the case and had you have trouble shot step by step, you probably would have figured it out without people heading you off on the Lee FCD tangent.
The OAL will vary from bullet to bullet. The bullet must be seated deep enough that it does not hit the rifling.
The OAL will also vary from gun to gun. My Norinco 1911s require a deep seated bulllet. MY SIG 220 allows the bulllet to be seated out at max for the magazine. The PARA ORD chambers are in between.
It took a lot of fiddling with my seater/crimper to get a crimp that did not interfere with chambering. I suggest you seat the bullets ddeep while getting the crimp set, so you are sure the bullet is not touching. You can adjust seating depth last.
The OAL will also vary from gun to gun. My Norinco 1911s require a deep seated bulllet. MY SIG 220 allows the bulllet to be seated out at max for the magazine. The PARA ORD chambers are in between.
It took a lot of fiddling with my seater/crimper to get a crimp that did not interfere with chambering. I suggest you seat the bullets ddeep while getting the crimp set, so you are sure the bullet is not touching. You can adjust seating depth last.
Super_Chicken
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
Yes, I still am using it as a single stage, loading only a single cartridge at a time. If anything my lack of experience could attribute to the problem just as much.
It seems like everything is setup correctly and that my gun itself requires a deeper seated bullet.
