Flashbang Sustainability Question??

Every time something a little different appears, people freak out, worried about stupid people causing a ban. These flash bangers aren't any more dangerous than bear bangers or a .22 rifle or a car.
 
Every time something a little different appears, people freak out, worried about stupid people causing a ban. These flash bangers aren't any more dangerous than bear bangers or a .22 rifle or a car.

LOL, if only public opinion worked like that, :)
 
Here is my question. For what reason are you (anyone participating in the buy) purchasing these? Just curious. I like things that go boom as much as or maybe even more than the next guy, but really don't see a civilian use for one of these. Set one of these off in an urban or suburban setting and you'll be getting a visit from your local law enforcement.

Whatever your plans are, be careful. Look at the Lockhart website info on these things - 179 dB and just after that at 180 dB is death of hearing tissue.
 
Here is my question. For what reason are you (anyone participating in the buy) purchasing these? Just curious. I like things that go boom as much as or maybe even more than the next guy, but really don't see a civilian use for one of these. Set one of these off in an urban or suburban setting and you'll be getting a visit from your local law enforcement.

Whatever your plans are, be careful. Look at the Lockhart website info on these things - 179 dB and just after that at 180 dB is death of hearing tissue.

Because I want to. Entertainment. No different than some anti saying they see no reason you should have a firearm....
 
Here is my question. For what reason are you (anyone participating in the buy) purchasing these? Just curious. I like things that go boom as much as or maybe even more than the next guy, but really don't see a civilian use for one of these. Set one of these off in an urban or suburban setting and you'll be getting a visit from your local law enforcement.

Whatever your plans are, be careful. Look at the Lockhart website info on these things - 179 dB and just after that at 180 dB is death of hearing tissue.

You offer some good second sobering thoughts, but for me the "why" is a non issue. Pls don't take that in the wrong context.
 
Here is my question. For what reason are you (anyone participating in the buy) purchasing these? Just curious. I like things that go boom as much as or maybe even more than the next guy, but really don't see a civilian use for one of these. Set one of these off in an urban or suburban setting and you'll be getting a visit from your local law enforcement.

Whatever your plans are, be careful. Look at the Lockhart website info on these things - 179 dB and just after that at 180 dB is death of hearing tissue.

Non-lethal home invasion protection, close encounters with wildlife. To name 2 uses. Can be very useful.
 
Non-lethal home invasion protection, close encounters with wildlife. To name 2 uses. Can be very useful.

Prob give the intruder hearing loss and a lazy eye, and get sued for a cool half MIL:jerkit: lol

I want one just because I can as well. It will be fun to test them out. I don't need a reason haha.

Duff
 
So let me start by saying that I have "both feet firmly planted" in this group buy. I'm not here to "cast aspersions" nor am I here to "rain on anyone's parade" . Nuff said.

That said, I will play "devils advocate" though. IMO the real "cornerstone" of this device is it's ability to be returned and "recharged" at a very reasonable cost.
Very shortly the country is going to be saturated with this devices, no problem with that.

However, what if??? at some point the manufacture was getting pressure from a law enforcement agency? would Lockhart still be able to handle the recharging? and
does Lockhart have a solid relationship with the manufacturer to ensure this?

Now, wait a minute, I'm not saying you have a "crystal ball", I understand that. However in order to make this device as attractive as it is? this seems to be a reasonable question?

I'm old enough to know what makes the 6 o'clock news these days and most of the time it's "stupid" people. And we all know how that works.

Sorry for the delay, We try to always write contact us direction at Info@LockhartTactical.com for instant responses.

Okay so here is where we are at right now.

We've done as much research as we can into this.
There is no licensing required to purchase these, this information was given to us directly from the manufacturer. They know what they are doing.

Granted, some people say this is a "gray" area, however I like to look at everything being black and white. We do our very best to comply with every single law and regulation to ensure 100% perfect business and customer satisfaction.

Lets first talk about differences.
Typical flash bangs require a DETONATOR FUSE or such. This is an EXPLOSIVE part. Something Civilians CANNOT have in their possession without proper explosive licensing. However our systems DO NOT USE THIS! We have a proprietary ignition system which is very safe.

Inside the flash bang there are no crazy explosives. In fact, there is FAR LESS charge in our units than in a typical bear banger which launches into the air and EXPLODES. This is NOT like tannerite or any other explosive target which when exploded inside an object shoots shrapnel 360 degrees from it, which is 100x more dangerous than our units. Civilians can buy fireworks which are also far more dangerous than our units.

Points to note.
THESE CAN STILL HARM USERS.
NEVER HOLD THE UNIT after the spoon is released. This should be common sense... however im writing it just in case.

These have a very short delay.
Pull the safety pin out, and throw. Once again... DO NOT KEEP HOLDING THE UNIT AFTER SPOON HAS BEEN RELEASED!

You wouldn't hold a firework when it's about to blow... don't hold this!

These cause a very loud noise! Expect it to be louder than anything you've ever heard. This can cause hearing damage if used too close to you.

Once again.. common sense... THESE ARE NOT FOR KIDS.
DO NOT let kids or any other incompetent ADULT TOUCH and or USE these.
DO NOT throw this directly at someone. They have weight to them.. You can seriously harm someone.
You don't want these GOING OFF right beside you.

Traditional flash bangs also get VERY VERY HOT after being thrown. They cause many fires and usually can't be picked up for 5-10 minutes without suffering extreme burns. Our system due to the tiny amount of actual filler, can be picked up immediately after use and should be safe to touch with a bare hand, however extra precaution is always recommended.


Why are we selling these?
We believe the law abiding shouldn't have to be restricted due to a fraction of a percent of non law abiding. We do NOT sell to anyone we have thoughts will use with bad choices in mind.
If we caught wind of anyone doing, or about to do anything stupid, we WILL assist local law enforcement. We want incredible products on the market for the law abiding and nothing more than that.

Fireworks, Explosive Targets, Bear Bangers and other products are already available on the market, we believe the firearm enthusiasts should have their fun toys also.


Reloading These Training Devices
We should have no problem always having these devices refilled. We do have a solid relationship with the MFG, however I cannot promise that we can do it forever, or even a set amount of time. As you said, we have no magic 8 ball and no way to tell the future. However at this point in time, we anticipate no issues. What is really boils down to, is the actual cost of these is extremely cheap. A non refillable unit can easily cost twice as much as our units, and they are garbage after being used. If refills are the ONLY reason for purchasing, we'd rather not sell a unit and ensure our clients remain happy with us. We aren't god and can only do what we can do.

We are 100% willing to fight anything to try to ensure these units are always avail to LAW ABIDING CANADIANS! We have over 2 Million registered Firearm licenses in Canada. We account for a good sized chunk of citizens. DO NOT FORGET THIS> We need to start banding together and start getting rights!

What Would I Use These For?
Obviously if zombies attack and you want to blade your entire group of survivors, you should chuck a couple of these... The incredibly loud noises will bring those suckers in from every end of the country!
But seriously, I think these are one of those products that is more like... Why wouldn't you?

While training on your range, if you range allows it... You can throw these to initiate a firefight or such. Remember... DO NOT THROW THESE AT PEOPLE!
When using these INDOORS or OUTDOORS, remember to be smart about it. Inside a closed building with closed windows the air has no where to go... Its going to be even louder and a hazard to your ears potentially. Wearing ear defenders is recommended!
Although our units should never CAUSE a fire.. it's still possible. DO NOT USE around FLAMMABLE products or FLAMMABLE FUMES... Should be obvious... Have water nearby just in case you had to put out a small fire.

Once again, this all comes back to be a SAFE, and RESPONSIBLE user. Don't step on your own ####.

These could be used to scare away large predators in the bush, however when possible we always recommend having a non restricted firearm for that... Namely, our under barrel 12G which you're all waiting so patiently for ;)


RECAP

Once again, our devices have our own propitiatory IGNITION SYSTEM and FILLER inside. UNLIKE anything else on the market.
These is no licensing required, and zero reason a regular civilian shouldn't be able to have one, due to all of our components being safe.

Hopefully this answers everything! We are around if not. Please email. We really want to encourage safe, fun and realistic training!

Thanks!
 
Well said and a "top shelf" reply, Thanks again for your effort on this and your commitment. Bravo Zulu. Cheers
 
Sorry for the delay, We try to always write contact us direction at Info@LockhartTactical.com for instant responses.

Okay so here is where we are at right now.

We've done as much research as we can into this.
There is no licensing required to purchase these, this information was given to us directly from the manufacturer. They know what they are doing.

Granted, some people say this is a "gray" area, however I like to look at everything being black and white. We do our very best to comply with every single law and regulation to ensure 100% perfect business and customer satisfaction.

Lets first talk about differences.
Typical flash bangs require a DETONATOR FUSE or such. This is an EXPLOSIVE part. Something Civilians CANNOT have in their possession without proper explosive licensing. However our systems DO NOT USE THIS! We have a proprietary ignition system which is very safe.

Inside the flash bang there are no crazy explosives. In fact, there is FAR LESS charge in our units than in a typical bear banger which launches into the air and EXPLODES. This is NOT like tannerite or any other explosive target which when exploded inside an object shoots shrapnel 360 degrees from it, which is 100x more dangerous than our units. Civilians can buy fireworks which are also far more dangerous than our units.

Points to note.
THESE CAN STILL HARM USERS.
NEVER HOLD THE UNIT after the spoon is released. This should be common sense... however im writing it just in case.

These have a very short delay.
Pull the safety pin out, and throw. Once again... DO NOT KEEP HOLDING THE UNIT AFTER SPOON HAS BEEN RELEASED!

You wouldn't hold a firework when it's about to blow... don't hold this!

These cause a very loud noise! Expect it to be louder than anything you've ever heard. This can cause hearing damage if used too close to you.

Once again.. common sense... THESE ARE NOT FOR KIDS.
DO NOT let kids or any other incompetent ADULT TOUCH and or USE these.
DO NOT throw this directly at someone. They have weight to them.. You can seriously harm someone.
You don't want these GOING OFF right beside you.

Traditional flash bangs also get VERY VERY HOT after being thrown. They cause many fires and usually can't be picked up for 5-10 minutes without suffering extreme burns. Our system due to the tiny amount of actual filler, can be picked up immediately after use and should be safe to touch with a bare hand, however extra precaution is always recommended.


Why are we selling these?
We believe the law abiding shouldn't have to be restricted due to a fraction of a percent of non law abiding. We do NOT sell to anyone we have thoughts will use with bad choices in mind.
If we caught wind of anyone doing, or about to do anything stupid, we WILL assist local law enforcement. We want incredible products on the market for the law abiding and nothing more than that.

Fireworks, Explosive Targets, Bear Bangers and other products are already available on the market, we believe the firearm enthusiasts should have their fun toys also.


Reloading These Training Devices
We should have no problem always having these devices refilled. We do have a solid relationship with the MFG, however I cannot promise that we can do it forever, or even a set amount of time. As you said, we have no magic 8 ball and no way to tell the future. However at this point in time, we anticipate no issues. What is really boils down to, is the actual cost of these is extremely cheap. A non refillable unit can easily cost twice as much as our units, and they are garbage after being used. If refills are the ONLY reason for purchasing, we'd rather not sell a unit and ensure our clients remain happy with us. We aren't god and can only do what we can do.

We are 100% willing to fight anything to try to ensure these units are always avail to LAW ABIDING CANADIANS! We have over 2 Million registered Firearm licenses in Canada. We account for a good sized chunk of citizens. DO NOT FORGET THIS> We need to start banding together and start getting rights!

What Would I Use These For?
Obviously if zombies attack and you want to blade your entire group of survivors, you should chuck a couple of these... The incredibly loud noises will bring those suckers in from every end of the country!
But seriously, I think these are one of those products that is more like... Why wouldn't you?

While training on your range, if you range allows it... You can throw these to initiate a firefight or such. Remember... DO NOT THROW THESE AT PEOPLE!
When using these INDOORS or OUTDOORS, remember to be smart about it. Inside a closed building with closed windows the air has no where to go... Its going to be even louder and a hazard to your ears potentially. Wearing ear defenders is recommended!
Although our units should never CAUSE a fire.. it's still possible. DO NOT USE around FLAMMABLE products or FLAMMABLE FUMES... Should be obvious... Have water nearby just in case you had to put out a small fire.

Once again, this all comes back to be a SAFE, and RESPONSIBLE user. Don't step on your own ####.

These could be used to scare away large predators in the bush, however when possible we always recommend having a non restricted firearm for that... Namely, our under barrel 12G which you're all waiting so patiently for ;)


RECAP

Once again, our devices have our own propitiatory IGNITION SYSTEM and FILLER inside. UNLIKE anything else on the market.
These is no licensing required, and zero reason a regular civilian shouldn't be able to have one, due to all of our components being safe.

Hopefully this answers everything! We are around if not. Please email. We really want to encourage safe, fun and realistic training!

Thanks!

Solid write up, can't wait to get mine. Oh and do we have an answer on shelf life? Is it the same as refill time?
 
"Lets first talk about differences.
Typical flash bangs require a DETONATOR FUSE or such. This is an EXPLOSIVE part. Something Civilians CANNOT have in their possession without proper explosive licensing. However our systems DO NOT USE THIS! We have a proprietary ignition system which is very safe.

Inside the flash bang there are no crazy explosives. In fact, there is FAR LESS charge in our units than in a typical bear banger which launches into the air and EXPLODES. This is NOT like tannerite or any other explosive target which when exploded inside an object shoots shrapnel 360 degrees from it, which is 100x more dangerous than our units. Civilians can buy fireworks which are also far more dangerous than our units."

You have an ignition composition, a delay composition, and a 'main charge' type composition.

If I understand your post correctly, you say that the detonating fuze is the part that would normally make this illegal for people. This would normally allow the same part to be used for grenades (HE initiation) as well as flashbang (LE ignition)

So your device uses a proprietary fire train. Ok. What are the compositions. It is still impact initiated because of the spoon/pin design. The simple choice for reusing these would be a shotgun primer, followed by a delay composition, followed by main charge.

You are not going to be pressing in delay composition. that would have too much variability. So you have a delay component made to precise 1.5s standards to toss in each time during filling. The main sound/light charge is likely the same. Its not HE, so it will not be loud without confinement, so you need confinement anyway, so it likely a prepackaged unit of composition to be added each time.


So what I am getting at is.......supply the refills too! cmon! cmooooon!
 
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Hey guys, we're really sad to have to have to do this, but today when placing a massive order from MFG, they informed us that they just raised their prices quite a few dollars per unit.

We've kept the 3 tier pricing, and we're eating all the cost on the top two tiers. On the bulk buys, we had to go up a few dollars.

We don't get free shipping even when we're spending like 50K $ from the MFG.
We pay shipping to us, and then we have shipping going out to clients of course.

Flat rate shipping for bulk orders which we also lose money on.

Once again we're very sorry!

78.99ea 1+
68.99ea 5+
53.27ea 25+

Cost on refills is set for sure at 24.99, we just got this info today.
It will be 1-2 day turn around time. Very fast.

We have to replace a lot of parts on the device to ensure it is 100% safe for use. We don't want ANYONE getting hurt.

Anyone who has a group buy in currently, may have a 100% refund if they are not okay with the changes.
We will contact everyone shortly with an order that hasn't already shipped.

Once again... our hands are tied, and we can't go bankrupt losing money on units we are ordering in.

Thank you for your understanding.
Email us if you have questions.

Thank you!
 
I think the real question is; "have actual Sound and Flash grenades been prohibited for civilian use in Canada"...?

Real flashbangs are generally classified as Type D explosives (Law Enforcement) under the Explosives Act and require licensing for manufacture, sale and acquisition.

There is no licensing required to purchase these, this information was given to us directly from the manufacturer. They know what they are doing.

It would be helpful if you got a statement from Natural Resources Canada that clearly states that they are not controlled Type D (Law Enforcement) explosives, and what type of explosives they actually are. They're they only ones whose opinion matters and the type of explosive determines how to handle/store them in accordance with the Explosives Regulations, 2013.
 
Real flashbangs are generally classified as Type D explosives (Law Enforcement) under the Explosives Act and require licensing for manufacture, sale and acquisition.



It would be helpful if you got a statement from Natural Resources Canada that clearly states that they are not controlled Type D (Law Enforcement) explosives, and what type of explosives they actually are. They're they only ones whose opinion matters and the type of explosive determines how to handle/store them in accordance with the Explosives Regulations, 2013.

X2 especially if the RCMP come along while anyone has one in their possession.
 
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