For anyone doubting the quality and reliability of a Norc M4
- Thread starter greg11
- Start date
winnipegger
CGN frequent flyer
LAR10 mags that busted at seams or busted using those plastic couplers & norc mags.
With pmags and those aluminum mags with green followers I've had no issues.
By fit, i mean how smooth or how sandy the selector switches from safe to semi, as long as it switches. details details, but I think you know what I mean.
If someone were to offer me tons of ammo, trg AND a KAC...sign me up.
One thing I am not willing to comprimise on, and that is safety. Where safety is a concern, I try to buy the best I can afford, and upgrade or swap as timings/money permits.
For you, the 'ultra' high quality of workmanship and materials (and all the patents, and technology and knowledge transfer that enabled the product to be made) mean alot to you, and I can definately dig a person who's into that. I certainly am....when the economies within my cirumstances allows it. Else, I'd rather get more rounds downrange w/ trg as an ROI vs puchasing a higher end gun and not left with enough money for some extra goodies to go with that.
Like trading in a diamond for something bigger and better, the opportunities do exist to trade up into a KAC, LMT, BCM. HOwever, I will wait until the point that my skillsets are being limited by the manuf of the guns I own.
Bottom line 99.9% of us use our AR's in a controlled environment. In all reality when shooting in these conditions reliability is not much of an issue and if it is worth it to you to spend and extra 2-3000 dollars so that you never have to worry about stoppages then all the power to you. Winnipegger, if you are tired of reading about people praising their toys, don't click on the link when it says something about Norinco... Sounds to me like you are just trying to reassure yourself that you didn't waste a few extra thousand dollars just to shoot paper at the range.
Personally I would not buy a Norinco, I own a RRA. That being said I would also never waste my money on something like a KAC if I was just going to be plinking at the range.
Bottom line if people want to praise their toys and say how good the are, who cares, all the power to them.
Personally I would not buy a Norinco, I own a RRA. That being said I would also never waste my money on something like a KAC if I was just going to be plinking at the range.
Bottom line if people want to praise their toys and say how good the are, who cares, all the power to them.
I wouldn't call it "wasting" money if thats where you place 'value'. For example, I could drive a honda civic, but I own exclusively Land Rovers. I just happen to like and use what the Land Rover can offer that a civic could not, ie: my offroading skilslets are being limited by the manuf of vehicle.
Fair enough. Waste was the wrong word to use in that sentence, perhaps just leave it at splurged. Although I'm not sure comparing a Norinco and a KAC are quite the same as comparing a Land Rover and a Civic... It is legal for us to go off roading in a Land Rover where as my point was that you can't take your AR-15 off the range and head out into the bush. But I do agree with you point if you that is where you place your value then to each his own.
winnipegger
CGN frequent flyer
I totally get what you are saying as well a 3000 rifle with no ammo is about as good as well....a car without gas? (but u can still sleep in the car in dire straits) but i guess the reason i lost my s**t is because the topic of this thread is for anyone doubting the reliability, so thats me and i'd figure i'd sound off so that it didn't become a bunch of guys blindly dismissing stoppages as not the rifles fault which seems to happen all to much when cheap guns are the topic.
This is not a reliability test by any means what-so-ever. Few jams, but as a viewer we can't really tell what were the causes? There's a good chance it was the rifle it's self, there's also a good chance it was operator failure.
Coming from an owner of one I can say that it is in fact reliable for what I use it for; target shooting. Would the rifle stand up under extreme circumstances such as a very hard run and gun?Or further a conflict zone? I don't know?
Coming from an owner of one I can say that it is in fact reliable for what I use it for; target shooting. Would the rifle stand up under extreme circumstances such as a very hard run and gun?Or further a conflict zone? I don't know?
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
It did not Jam.
IT FAILED TO FEED.
Riding the action and improperly seated mags will do that with any rifle.
IT FAILED TO FEED.
Riding the action and improperly seated mags will do that with any rifle.
I am sure the Chinese can make a weapon that is of the quality of LMT or BCM at 1/3 of the cost, but people want to pay only 1/5 of the cost to pocket even deeper margin in exchange for lower quality and volume. That's why you see so many cheap Chinese stuff because they allow the distributor/importer get even more cut while keeping the final price cheap enough. That is how western companies and consumers got addicted.
Look - 1/4 of the cost, but 1/2 of the price that drives the volume beyond 2X. That is the equation that drives Chinese goods in Western nations. Sit down in front of excel and draw a graph - every merchant knows the equation!
The chinese simply generate more value per dollar in their products. You have to give them the credit- that allows the merchants in the west to exploit the advantages to create super high margin while at the same time achieving price point to jack up volume! This is not limited to firearms - -anything that are Chinese, from textile goods to home appliances! In returns, the US keeps this going by borrowing the money they paid to Chinese from the Chinese.
The only hold out for Americans companies is the 89 Assault Weapon Import ban. It is one of the few consumer markets that the Chinese has not cracked due to regulations. As long as the importers are content to corner themselves to the lower end of the market - we will see functional but asethetically mediocre Chinese goods.
However, we are already seeing the next step - low cost chinese goods with better quality are being push to the premier price range. It is like the transition of Japan starting about 40 years ago. One day we may put Chinese products on the same level as Japanese.....and the next cheap slave country somewhere in south east asia or africa will replace China.
without trying to beat a dead horse on the topic of chinar manuf = low quality and why you should/should not buy chinar...
The norc has the possibility to not be as "reliable" as higher end manuf. However, we won't know until there has been some definitive reportable, and repeatable, and accredited stress/torture with trial periods etc. I believe that these trials and tests and their results, are part of the inputs that help determine the market value of the 'milspec' guns.
I would guess that if the norc was submitted and subjected to these same trials and tests, it would also drive up the price of the gun, causing the us the consumers to look for a cheaper alternative, as GT mentions. Whether it passes or fails, still would be a moot point to me, personally, as I doubt I would be subjecting it to the same operating conditions these tests would simulate. (That's what the work gun is for)
I would also just like to put out there, that consider some 'higher end" manuf, are really just superior marketing, while spitting out some an inferior product. The Para-Ordinance is a prime example of this...
Norc does not purport to be something it isn't. It exports clones and copies of guns, and it does it well. Well enough to have a huge fan base. And as GT mentioned, if the Americans were allowed to have it, they would jump all over it like white on rice.
The norc has the possibility to not be as "reliable" as higher end manuf. However, we won't know until there has been some definitive reportable, and repeatable, and accredited stress/torture with trial periods etc. I believe that these trials and tests and their results, are part of the inputs that help determine the market value of the 'milspec' guns.
I would guess that if the norc was submitted and subjected to these same trials and tests, it would also drive up the price of the gun, causing the us the consumers to look for a cheaper alternative, as GT mentions. Whether it passes or fails, still would be a moot point to me, personally, as I doubt I would be subjecting it to the same operating conditions these tests would simulate. (That's what the work gun is for)
I would also just like to put out there, that consider some 'higher end" manuf, are really just superior marketing, while spitting out some an inferior product. The Para-Ordinance is a prime example of this...
Norc does not purport to be something it isn't. It exports clones and copies of guns, and it does it well. Well enough to have a huge fan base. And as GT mentioned, if the Americans were allowed to have it, they would jump all over it like white on rice.
While working in Latin American, in the canada house, I shared cubans with a dude who is the manager of some auto parts manuf headquarted in Toronto. He oversees operations in Chinar and in monterray Mexico. His "made in chinar" auto stamped products are being used in NAFTA cars as well as aloot of higher end lux vehicles. HOwever he is trying to relocate the manuf process back to Mexico or elsewhere in latin american, maybe Colombia, because labour is getting too expensive in Chinar - as their workers demand more rights, and their job force is coming on par with human rights. Chinar is also coming on par with polution control - which also drives up costs. whereas areas untapped like Colombia or Mexico still have a 'lax' or less-enforced pollution situaion (his ten years in one of the SEZ's in china never had a respitory problem, staying 6 months in Monterry mexico, his entire family and him has developed asthma related to environemtnal.)
Look guys, at the end of the day, if you can afford a nicer AR, get one. I fully supoprt that idea.
If all you can reasonably afford in a Norinco, by all means buy that. they can be made to work very acceptably for range work and in the end, more people will own an AR15, making eventual prohibition that much less likely.
I hope very AR in Canada sells at retail and anothe rhuge volume gets imported and sold too... keep 'em coming until every home has one.
I'd love for the Norinco AR15 to become the next Cooey .22 in it's dispersion.
If all you can reasonably afford in a Norinco, by all means buy that. they can be made to work very acceptably for range work and in the end, more people will own an AR15, making eventual prohibition that much less likely.
I hope very AR in Canada sells at retail and anothe rhuge volume gets imported and sold too... keep 'em coming until every home has one.
I'd love for the Norinco AR15 to become the next Cooey .22 in it's dispersion.
So what you are saying is, working and middle class + small biz folks in various countries point fingers at each other and trade insults, while rich folks who are nationality & ethnic indifference laugh all the way to their Cayman island bank accounts.
I think there's a very good probability the US will become a slave-labour country.
Back to the OP though - I like the Pilo-peeno "Army" torture test
Right out of the box:
5" group at 150m with the iron sights.
4 mags - full auto - no stoppages
All in a sandy, dusty range in da Pilo-peens.
I'd say that's good enough for me.
Filipino soldier eating too much meat and rice ftw!
[youtube]KBJO_zXuHVQ[/youtube]
- Location
- 54°52'56"N 112°10'7"W Alpha Bravo
For the LOVE OF GOD......could the OP fix the title to this thread.....it's not a NROK...............it's a NORK.........
It's really bugging me....
Actually it's Norinco, the short version would be Norc...
I picked one up today at my local shop, meh if it works I guess, but damn it's ####in ugly and cheap looking. Whatever floats yer boat I guess...
