Frontier's new Imperial Defense AR's
- Thread starter vierdo
- Start date
hey why don't you guys go f**k yourselves.... the dealer says milspec and they are obviously not. trigger control that rotates 180*, 1/9 twist barrel etc.
you guys don't like the fact that these are brought into the light so consumers can buy with an informed decision well go f**k yourselves once again.
lets see, 2 threads where I have s**t on something, and all of a sudden I am the "world"..... get over yourselves guys and get over me, I am a nobody but you obviously think I am a somebody to care so much.
If you guys care to go back and read the first page of this thread KEVINB was the first one to start questioning this gun and ####ting on it.... HIS opinion I would trust.
you guys don't like the fact that these are brought into the light so consumers can buy with an informed decision well go f**k yourselves once again.
lets see, 2 threads where I have s**t on something, and all of a sudden I am the "world"..... get over yourselves guys and get over me, I am a nobody but you obviously think I am a somebody to care so much.
If you guys care to go back and read the first page of this thread KEVINB was the first one to start questioning this gun and ####ting on it.... HIS opinion I would trust.
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Went back and checked, KevinB nowhere to be found on page 1.
Relax, I'm with you on this one. I don't see how this is any different than the Sabre thread where guys were asking the same sort of questions about what they'd be getting for their hard earned dough. Only difference I see between this and the other is that John at Wolverine answered all the questions asked.
Mil Spec? What the hell does that mean. People throw the term around like it's the end all be all and half the time they don't know what it means. For example when Rick at ATRS started telling us about his lowers he claimed that the 7075 T6 Aluminum he would be using is greater than mil spec. Little did he realize that 7075 had been the mil spec for a couple of decades. Once he was aware he stood corrected and carried on.wwwww
I think that what most people would like to know is how these stack up against "The Chart". Answer that and people can make the decision for themselves.
A chrome bolt carrier group hasn't been in use in the US for the last few decades, while it was the original spec, that's no longer the case. Any unit that still has chromed carrier groups are allowed to retain them for training purposes but they aren't allowed in the sand box. As for the reason behind all that, I don't really know, just saying that it ain't "mil spec".
Oh, and for those that don't get it, 1/9 definitely isn't military twist rate, therefore not part of any "spec". And what of the barrel steel? Is it 4140, 4150, CMV? Does it meet the mil spec" standard set out in MIL-B-11595E for chemical composition?
80% parts interchangeability? Still confused by that one, just looking for some clarification is all.
The point is people have valid questions, why is it so hard to get straight answers?
Relax, I'm with you on this one. I don't see how this is any different than the Sabre thread where guys were asking the same sort of questions about what they'd be getting for their hard earned dough. Only difference I see between this and the other is that John at Wolverine answered all the questions asked.
Mil Spec? What the hell does that mean. People throw the term around like it's the end all be all and half the time they don't know what it means. For example when Rick at ATRS started telling us about his lowers he claimed that the 7075 T6 Aluminum he would be using is greater than mil spec. Little did he realize that 7075 had been the mil spec for a couple of decades. Once he was aware he stood corrected and carried on.wwwww
I think that what most people would like to know is how these stack up against "The Chart". Answer that and people can make the decision for themselves.
A chrome bolt carrier group hasn't been in use in the US for the last few decades, while it was the original spec, that's no longer the case. Any unit that still has chromed carrier groups are allowed to retain them for training purposes but they aren't allowed in the sand box. As for the reason behind all that, I don't really know, just saying that it ain't "mil spec".
Oh, and for those that don't get it, 1/9 definitely isn't military twist rate, therefore not part of any "spec". And what of the barrel steel? Is it 4140, 4150, CMV? Does it meet the mil spec" standard set out in MIL-B-11595E for chemical composition?
80% parts interchangeability? Still confused by that one, just looking for some clarification is all.
The point is people have valid questions, why is it so hard to get straight answers?
Went back and checked, KevinB nowhere to be found on page 1.
The point is people have valid questions, why is it so hard to get straight answers?
I have my settings to show 100 posts per page,kevinb is post #'s 38,41,44,47 and 50....
what I do not get is the 180* selector switch thing... to correct it do you just install a new selector or do you have to install all new trigger parts (might as well buy a lower parts kit then).
why would they put a selector switch that is not to current (or ANY) design spec.... even norinco can get the selector right.
TheGamerXxX
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- North of the 49, Manitoba
Seems like another "Ford" to me... If somebody built it right... we'll build it different!
Luke
Luke
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
It's not hard to do a 180-degree selector, you just need to change the design of the lever so it points backwards instead of upwards.
Anyway, I've dealt with Mick Ranger for 20 years and he is the real deal, he's not a fly-by-night operation, I've bought a fair amount of gear off him over the years.
His main claim to fame is the "H&K 51" i.e. the G3 cut down to MP5-size and he's listed as the manufacturer in Jane's.
He's basically an arms dealer and one of I think maybe five people in the UK who has a DTI open export licence. His business is similar to what Sam Cummings used to do with Interarms.
There is no connection at all between him and Guy Savage at Sabre Defence.
I don't know anything about these AR-15s specifically, but he does have the space on-site to make guns and has made them in the past.
He bought up a substantial percentage of the guns the US left behind in Vietnam, including all the XM177s (of which there weren't many).
He did import the AK-47 used by Michael Ryan in the Hungerford massacre, but he didn't sell it himself, he was the wholesaler. I think Dunmore Shooting Centre sold it to him but I can't recall exactly.
Most importantly he delivers in a timely manner.
Anyway, I've dealt with Mick Ranger for 20 years and he is the real deal, he's not a fly-by-night operation, I've bought a fair amount of gear off him over the years.
His main claim to fame is the "H&K 51" i.e. the G3 cut down to MP5-size and he's listed as the manufacturer in Jane's.
He's basically an arms dealer and one of I think maybe five people in the UK who has a DTI open export licence. His business is similar to what Sam Cummings used to do with Interarms.
There is no connection at all between him and Guy Savage at Sabre Defence.
I don't know anything about these AR-15s specifically, but he does have the space on-site to make guns and has made them in the past.
He bought up a substantial percentage of the guns the US left behind in Vietnam, including all the XM177s (of which there weren't many).
He did import the AK-47 used by Michael Ryan in the Hungerford massacre, but he didn't sell it himself, he was the wholesaler. I think Dunmore Shooting Centre sold it to him but I can't recall exactly.
Most importantly he delivers in a timely manner.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
And while I'm thinking about it, the AR-15 mags you see marked "Imperial Defence Services" have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any UK Govt. contract or the SA80 AT ALL. This is some stupid comment made by one of the suppliers in the US to make them sound cool.
Mick got them to sell with the Vietnam-surplus M16A1s he was selling.
If anyone who imports guns is reading this, last time I spoke to him he literally had a barrel load of 20-round Vietnam-era Colt mags on-hand (admittedly this was some time ago) so if you want something to pin to 5 round capacity, you might want to give him a call.
Mick got them to sell with the Vietnam-surplus M16A1s he was selling.
If anyone who imports guns is reading this, last time I spoke to him he literally had a barrel load of 20-round Vietnam-era Colt mags on-hand (admittedly this was some time ago) so if you want something to pin to 5 round capacity, you might want to give him a call.
Every line has to start somewhere. Almost everything is going up in price, as for it being "confirmed". What does that mean? A few peoples opinion about a product? They may have a completely different point of view than yourself and may not agree on what a certain firearm should and should not do. It will just be someone elses opinion. My two cents.
For anyone interested, Williams arms has them in Port Perry for $1575 as of this past Saturday. He has the 10' and the 14.5", great guys to deal with @ ###.williamsarms.net
Not to piss of anyone but in my opinion they are one step above the old Norincos in fit and finish. Wierd colour to them, almost like paint, the roll marks look like someone did them with an electric pencil, everything seems somewhat crude.
I have Colt's, Armalite's and a very early 10.5" SGW that I wouldn't trade for a crate of those but I would take one for $800 just for kicks.
As far as function goes, who knows they may be great.
Not to piss of anyone but in my opinion they are one step above the old Norincos in fit and finish. Wierd colour to them, almost like paint, the roll marks look like someone did them with an electric pencil, everything seems somewhat crude.
I have Colt's, Armalite's and a very early 10.5" SGW that I wouldn't trade for a crate of those but I would take one for $800 just for kicks.
As far as function goes, who knows they may be great.
I just had a look at one at P&D.......yuck.
-Light staking on the gas key
-Rough machining around the barrel
-Backwards fire control selector
-Questionable specs
-It was also fouled beyond anything that would be left behind by factory test rounds
If you just want a cool short barrel AR to plink with then go for it. If you're a black rifle guy that wants a serious AR to train with I would stay away from it. IMHO if you're paying 1600-1700$ for something it should be made right.
-Light staking on the gas key
-Rough machining around the barrel
-Backwards fire control selector
-Questionable specs
-It was also fouled beyond anything that would be left behind by factory test rounds
If you just want a cool short barrel AR to plink with then go for it. If you're a black rifle guy that wants a serious AR to train with I would stay away from it. IMHO if you're paying 1600-1700$ for something it should be made right.
I was not impressed with the Imperial Defense Rifle, crude to say the least, definitely NOT worth over $1500.00. For that amount of money I would expect proper fit and finish, unfortunately Imperial Defense doesn't deliver. Couple that with almost a year for delivery time (to a local shop), I'll stick with the other established rifles for that price.
(I set my layout for 100/page too...)
IMHO You guys are getting sold a bill of good with this system.
1) Bolt - are they proof tested and shot peened?
2) Barrel composition?
3) Type III HCA?
Given the glaring issues already I have some serious reservations about these.
Plus I need you guys to buy more SR15E3's
IMHO You guys are getting sold a bill of good with this system.
1) Bolt - are they proof tested and shot peened?
2) Barrel composition?
3) Type III HCA?
Given the glaring issues already I have some serious reservations about these.
Plus I need you guys to buy more SR15E3's
I'm sure if you send them, people will buy them!
(I set my layout for 100/page too...)
IMHO You guys are getting sold a bill of good with this system.
1) Bolt - are they proof tested and shot peened?
2) Barrel composition?
3) Type III HCA?
Given the glaring issues already I have some serious reservations about these.
Plus I need you guys to buy more SR15E3's
In response to these points:
-I have seen many AR 15-s from almost every manufacture including Colt that have light staking on the gas key. Our armourer is satisfied that it was done properly.
-agreed that the machining was not perfect and if outward appearance was a criteria then this would be important,
-the selector is infact backwards and can be replaced if this is a deal breaker
-the specs are very similar to the claims from some other manufacturers about being "milspec" and certainly wouldn't meets Kevin B's criteria as a front line AR 15. This having been said we are not trying to sell these to the military or law enforcement where peoples lives may be on the line. We bought these to fill a void in the black gun market that was wide open for the short barrel (10.5" and 14.5") market. If these guns fail to work properly then we will deal with this as it occurs.
-I don't know what gun you looked at that was "fouled beyond anything that would be left behind by factory test rounds". I just examined both guns on display and both appear clean without any carbon or fouling obvious in the bore or on the bolt.
Time will tell if these were a good deal or not and if they stand up over time. I just got off the phone from the distributor and he advised so far there have been no serious issues with the 100 guns in the country. So far one gun had a canted front sight (something that is a fairly common problem even with the main suppliers). The distributor (North Silva) have indicated they will stand behind these guns. They have had previous experience with AR 15 s as they were the previous Bushmaster distributor (before Remington/Ceberus bought them) and are the S&W M&P AR 15 distributor. If you think these guns are over priced then wait and see what the new year will bring for pricing from the other manufacturers. We thought about breaking up the uppers and lowers and maximizing our profits but deciding against it and as such there are no short uppers for sale as they all came as complete guns. Phil.
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