FRT changes for antique colts

As a related point of interest, 44-40s are not always listed as 44 caliber in Colt letters, they are mostly listed as 44/40. I don't personally have one, but multiple examples can be found with a Google search for "Colt letter 44/40" in the image tab. Same goes for 455 Eley. I personally have a 38/40 letter.
 
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I consider myself to be somewhat of an expert on the topic of the antique status of the Colt Single Action Army. I am well versed in the applicable sections of the firearms act and more importantly, the criminal code. I have had lengthy conversations with RCMP officers and employees of the firearms lab on this topic, and from this experience I can tell you this:

Despite what many here think, the RCMP Firearms Lab does not make the law. They are, however, responsible for interpreting the law as it pertains to firearms. Due in part to the complex and vague nature of Canadian firearms law, this interpretation is open to being both broad and loose. In other words, when there is doubt as to the law, the RCMP firearms lab employees get to make a decision that effects the enforcement of the law - and this interpretation effects all firearms owners.

The key to understanding the lab's decision on the status of pre-1898 Colt lies in the interpretation of Schedule 1-7 of the Regulations Prescribing Antique Firearms, which in part reads "other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge..." and goes on to list the vast majority of the common Colt SAA calibers. The firearms lab, as of about 4 years ago, has decided to interpret "designed" as "originally manufactured". Right or wrong, that is the case.

So, for the Colt SAA this means that in order for them to consider a pistol antique (and thus deregister and/or issue an antique letter) the gun must have rolled out of the factory in a caliber no excluded by the regulation, and not currently be in such a caliber. For proof, they will accept an original Colt factory letter, which WILL list odd 45 calibers such as the 455. The sad fact is, other than the 41 Colt, original guns manufactured in calibers not listed on the "no good" list are VERY rare, and considered VERY collectable.

It is true that most of the rank and file members of the RCMP have a very limited understanding of the vague and complex antique firearms regulations - as such, they would rely on their own internal experts at the Firearms lab or NWEST teams. What this means for the owner of a pre-1898 SAA is that what the Lab deems as antique and restricted VERY much matters. It is true that you do not need to produce an antique letter in order to possess an antique firearms. However, should the police catch you with a gun without such a letter, this is the most likely scenario:

You will insist that the gun is antique and no ATT/licence is required. The officer will not know one way or the other, and will seize the gun pending further investigation. The officer will then contact the firearms lab, who will use their interpretation of the firearms act to provide advice to the investigating officer. This advice will be that unless the owner can prove the gun was originally in an antique caliber, it's restricted or prohibited. Best case scenario, you lose the gun. Worst case is you are charged and sent to court, where you'll have ample opportunity to spend huge sums of money on a lawyer to argue your case infront of a judge. That'll be your opportunity to convince the judge that the lab is misinterpreting the law...

You'll often see pre-1898 Colt SAA guns sold on the EE in 38 special or 44 special or some other converted caliber, advertised as antique status but WITHOUT an antique letter. Rest assured, 99 times out of 100 this gun will have been manufactured in a no-go caliber, and wind you in the scenario above. There was recently a US marked gun on the EE, no letter. These guns were ALL in 45LC originally.

As for guns with antique letters, any gun that was lettered before they changed their interpretation was grandfathered. I was specifically told they would not be revoking issued antique letters.

Hope this helps.

This is the reason I have been searching for an antique status SAA in 41 Colt for several months. There are several guns that show up on the EE stating antique status chambered in 38 and 44 special but no letter. I have asked a few sellers on the original calibre but none seem to know or maybe they know but are not willing to supply that info to an unwitting buyer. With the risk being as Darkwater has stated in possessing one of these guns, thats way to many thousands to risk as well as any criminal charges that may stem from it. With the SAA in particular the 41 Colt is the best answer to this issue. I am not worried about the letters as I have several unlettered 100% antique non converted guns with no letters. BTW Gunbroker has finally paid off with a decent SAA in 41 Colt with a pretty descent price I am a happy guy !!
 
For the record, I never said a gun the lab considers to be "antique status" would be kept if siezed for investigation. Those would certainly be returned once the status was clear.

I was referring specifically to unlettered Colt single action army pistols, originally manufactured in a caliber in the "no good" list. These guns would be considered restricted or prohibited, therefore at minimum they'd be considered an unregistered restricted firearm. Good luck getting it back.

In that scenario, I would tend to agree. Could lead to hot water.

The rcmp letters are meaningless, make your own letter explaining the law on the pattern of the ones which were available a few years ago.

If you are stopped with an antique you will likely be arrested until/unless you are able to sufficiently educate whichever agency/officer you are detained by.

The only real solution is to try to avoid doing stupid things and dealing with incompetant or uneducated people.

To this Lee, just like I said above, the RCMP letters while seemingly meaningless and only really a "courtesy" gesture, 'guys gotta remember they are laid out similar to what an ATC is for format (plus are stamped with the "RCMP" badge/logo) which makes the Antique letters immediately recognizable to an official who might wind up asking to see it... that, specifically is where its value comes from.

I've personally been asked by two wardens in the past whether I had a permit to be carrying mine.. which at first they presumed was a restricted (obviously.) And my reply was Yes I have; so I handed them my RCMP "Antique" letter which he read through. The warden then told me he has a number of trappers in his district with Carry Permit (ATC's) so was familiar with what he was looking at with my RCMP Antique-status one, but did say the "Antique Title" was new to him. He handed it back though, no problems. An interest-conversation about the Colt followed and some dialog about the Open-carry only side of them, not in public-places, storage & transportation etc etc.. but all was otherwise well. They did their job by asking for accompanying paperwork the way its protocol to do, I supplied it, and afterward they went their way and I went mine.. I have no complaints at-all by it. It was (& should rightfully-be) that simple.

So the main part to take from that is this: the letters the cfc is printing for pre-98's simplifies & puts an Official 'badged' if you-will "Antique status" classification to a "piece" that would typically be (automatically) branded as a restricted at a glance without knowing. It's a document an Officer or a Warden can immediately relate to and find trust in through familiarity. So again, there [specifically] is where the real value sits in those meaningless courtesy letters... they aren't a bad thing to have if your pre-98 sees the light of day beyond the-safe in any interval.
 
Absolutely. For those that would dismiss an antique letter as meaningless, consider this. If the status of one of my lettered pistol was ever brought it to question, I would have a document IN MY NAME from the ONLY legal authority in Canada on firearm classification, indicating that my gun was antique status. Also of significant importance was the way I obtained this letter - I attempted to have it registered, and once the make/model/serial number was examined by a RCMP firearms expert, it was deemed to be unregisterable as it is of antique status - thus a letter was issued.

This is called documentation of due diligence, and absolution of criminal culpability.
 
Interesting read. Good info here.

I dont mean to be negative in anyway but the letters are also a registry of sorts.
The positive side is you guys get to use your antiques outside of ATT/range restrictions. I am glad that some still get to do that legally.
 
Tiriaq, I suspect you’re correct about “them” wanting to limit the supply of paperless guns... at that time there were several importers bringing them in. I viewed one at one point that I suspected was a fake... and heard tell of one fellow in the USA that was converting modern guns to match colt letters.

I can’t remember how to access the verifiers network and they aren’t answering the phone... it’s like a Monty python skit.

I wonder if a cartridge conversion of a 12.6 would work. Eg. 12.6 to restricted... .32acp to some non prohib caliber. Should be the same as the guns we’re discussing here, no?

30reid is the caliber of choice for such conversions. Quite a few such conversions have been done.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...liber-to-convert-32-acp-pistols-to-restricted
 
How’s that work? They’re applying policy in two different ways... what about guns altered before hand but with no letter?

I find it absolutely mind boggling that th3 rcmp could switch policies like that... and enforce it in two different ways. Very nonsensical

You find it "mind boggling"? Like Tiriaq says - the rcmp makes up the rules as they go along. Expecting reason, logic and common sense is an exercise in frustration. It's all part of the civil disarmament agenda, one gun, one classification, one barrel length, one calibre at a a time.
 
The rcmp letters are meaningless, make your own letter explaining the law on the pattern of the ones which were available a few years ago.

If you are stopped with an antique you will likely be arrested until/unless you are able to sufficiently educate whichever agency/officer you are detained by.

The only real solution is to try to avoid doing stupid things and dealing with incompetant or uneducated people.

I disagree about the value. In my experience even US customs agents recognizes them as sufficient documentation to prove antique status. I think you would be pissing in the wind if you thought you could educate these folks with your home made letter. Stakes are a little higher at border as not only will you loose your gun but also likely your vehicle.
 
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