Full Length Sized 308 Won't Chamber

chrismc said:
Isn't this situation pointing to brass memory?
I would do as mentioned and start with new brass, and only use it in that gun.
Worked for me.
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More then likely it is a stacking of tolerances going in the WRONG direction. Tikka chamber is likely at or slightly under min SAAMI spec for headspace or body dimensions.

The FL sizer used is a little "fat" or "long". A cannot be made to fit into B cause the case is not being sized enough.

Now if the surplus brass is truly oversized, a secondary problem can be caused by the sizing required to make it "fit"

Without the right tools and understanding, 1F brass from semi autos or full autos is false economy.

From the comments, there seems to be a belief that dies are always the right size and chambers always fit the cases from these dies. SAAMI allows for a range of tolerance for EVERYTHING so if big and small do not overlap, you have a problem.. made worst if you do not understand what the right solution is supposed to be.

Jerry
 
Hi everyone, I appreciate all the feedback! I picked up an RCBS Full Length Die set and adjusted it as per instructions. I wasn't sure whether I should go small base but decided I would try regular and return it if it still didn't work. Contact with the shell holder plus 1/4 turn made all of my 308 brass run nicely through the tikka (and the winchester)! but the 7.62 still would not chamber. Another 1/4 turn and all the former 7.62 now chambers easily! It must have been a tolerances issue with the Lee dies as many of you have said, but I am glad these RCBS dies will work for me. My only question now becomes: should I size all of the 308 stamped brass at 1/4 turn and the 7.62 at 1/2 turn or just do them all at 1/2 for the sake of consistency?

Just wanted to thank everyone for their input and I will attempt to stay away from once fired now as much as I can. Besides hunting for several years I never shot 'large' rifles much and thought the once fired would be a good way to practice and shoot a lot before moving up to better quality stuff when my groups shrink.
 
Always bear in mind that a some 308/7.62 brass comes from surplus military rifle chambers that often have oversize dimensions; eg Portugese and Israeli Mausers. The brass next to the head of a case is harder than the annealed area around the neck and mouth. This is a safety feature. If this area is in fact expanded substantially from firing, the brass will spring back somewhat after full length resizing. Given the quality of a Tikka and Winchester rifle chamber, this could be your problem. I agree with the above. Use new brass or brass from cartridges that have been fired in your rifles. I would separate the lots for each rifle,
 
TheNewShooter said:
....Contact with the shell holder plus 1/4 turn made all of my 308 brass run nicely through the tikka (and the winchester)! but the 7.62 still would not chamber. Another 1/4 turn and all the former 7.62 now chambers easily! It must have been a tolerances issue with the Lee dies as many of you have said, but I am glad these RCBS dies will work for me. My only question now becomes: should I size all of the 308 stamped brass at 1/4 turn and the 7.62 at 1/2 turn or just do them all at 1/2 for the sake of consistency?.........
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The 1/4 turn is a suggested setting, each model of press has it's strength and stretch spec, they are not all the same. My RCBS Summit has instructions that suggest more than a 1/4 turn, to take up the slack, just a design characteristic of the press.

You will probably find that a 1/4 turn will be adequate the next time you reload the 1F brass.

Nothing wrong with going 1/2 with all, but before I'd do that I'd clean the 1F brass after you size it 1/4, re-lube and give it a second sizing. My reasoning being, that 1/2 turn, depending on the press, "may" stress it a bit more than it should be. That being said, presses will take a heck of a lot of abuse before they "spring". I've purchased used presses, looked good, only to realize they were sprung. Oft times, buying used reloading tools, is false economy.

It's been my experience that LEE dies, as a rule, don't over re-size, they usually size below cartridge max. and some will be near cartridge min, but seldom smaller than cartridge min. Other brands tend to size smaller than a LEE. I would not hesitate to buy any brand, all good, some cost more and are better made, but bottom line, short of getting a custom die made, sometimes an off the shelf one will be right for your gun. I have purchased several dies to find one that is best for my rifle, still cheaper than getting a custom die made, but it doesn't always work. My tickle trunk has a few die sets that are there only to rob pieces from, or modify to do stupid stuff when the mood strikes.

My choice of dies sometimes centers around how they seat bullets, and here there is a huge design difference. Some brands seat bullets better than others. Some brands crimp better than others.

Nitro
 
It used to be that there some basic guidelines that everyone knew and accepted if you wanted ammo to work. Some of those were:

Use brass that was fired in your rifle.

FL size all hunting loads.
Never seat hunting loads tight on the lands.
Always use either new or at most once fired cases on hunting loads.
Avoid non bolt guns altogether.
Don't feel like you have to load everything until it screams for mercy.

There's probably others, and I cheerfully admit to have broken all of them at one time or another. I'll also been bit on the butt by every last one of them. It's just that the second you stray outside the lines you cross the line between "will work" and "might work". Beginners should stick to "will work". "Might work" requires either knowing something or a continuous run of good luck.
 
I have a similar problem that I attribute to thickness of brass in surplus casings. Try to keep a long story short.

Small base dies, both full length sized as well as neck sizing cases fired in the rifle. Cases have been trimmed prior to loading. Empty case fits chamber easily but once bullet is seated chambered rounds seem to be interfering with proper closing of action to varying degrees.

I'm surmising that as the bullet is seated it expands the neck causing the thicker surplus case to jam in the chamber. Haven't gotten a neck turner to determine if that will solve my issue.

If I'm following correctly, you are having a somewhat similar issue also using surplus brass?
 
I doubt if neck diameter is your problem, but a quick check will eliminate it. Measure the neck of a fired case, and measure the neck of cartridges with a seated bullet. I'd check for the seating die bulging the neck or shoulder. Many crimping problems happen to people who would have sworn they weren't crimping at all. Back the seating die off far enough that there is no way its making contact; at least for diagnostic purposes. Also check to see if the
Bullets are seated into thelands far enough to cause chambering problems. Reloading problems are usually simple once they're figured out. Sometimes they are so simple that the problem doesn't even get checked for.
 
Just to expand on Gordon M's post concerning needing a small base die. Try chambering the same round that does not fit about 10 times. If you see marks on the casing app. 1/2 to 3/4 " above the base you will need a small base die to get that brass back to size to fit that chamber. After you have used the small base die and shot the casing in that chamber standard dies can be used again. This is not that uncommon. I would check this before trimming any shell holders that can get you in a whole lot of trouble very quickly with head space issues.

With the cost of a small base die you may be just better off buying new brass. A redding small base die is listed on the X reload site, you are not likely to find one in your local shops. Even better if you can borrow one you will only need it once.
 
Any time I buy once fired military brass it is sized the first time with a small base die to bring the case back to minimum dimensions. Brass spring back is the problem when the cases are fired in larger diameter and headspaced chambers and some times this can be cured by pausing at the top of the ram stroke for a few seconds. Pausing will greatly reduce the brass spring back "BUT" 7.62 cases fired in a machine gun can be troublesome and require a small base die to beat them into submission.

And as a side note my RCBS .223/5.56 small base die only sizes the case .0005 smaller in diameter than my standard RCBS .223 die. And my standard Lee .223 full length die sizes the cases smaller in diameter than my RCBS small base die. Meaning dies do vary in size along with chambers and some times have several type dies comes in handy.
 
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There is a very easy way to tell if you have a headspace problem or an oversized web problem.............if your case is just too long for the chamber, when you go to remove the case after the bolt won't cam down, it just pulls out without any resistance. If your webs are too big and you push and try to cam down your bolt, when you try to remove this case it will be almost stuck and will present significant resistance to being removed.
OP, once you have sized all your cases so that they chamber and will fire in your Tikka, then after firing you will be able to neck size only for a few firings and not have to size every time to contact plus 1/2 turn.
Also keep your brass separated between different rifles and mark it clearly which brass for which rifle or you will surely end up with grief. Even though the 2 rifles are chambered for the same cartridge, treat them as though the were two totally different calibers.
This and other problems are why you will not find any red boxes in my die rack, all green...........
 
I've been using a set of Lee dies for about twenty years, in .30/'06. Just last year, I found that my full length size loads wouldn't fit in two newly acquired rifles. A Ruger 77, and an elderly FN Mauser, both commercial rifles. No matter what I did, I couldn't get a resized case to chamber in either one. I used an RCBS sizer die and they chambered properly. The Lee die resized enough for about a dozen rifles over the years, but not those two. The Lee dies went on my give-away table and I use the RCBS dies and a new set of Reddings.
 
slug said:
I've been using a set of Lee dies for about twenty years, in .30/'06. Just last year, I found that my full length size loads wouldn't fit in two newly acquired rifles. A Ruger 77, and an elderly FN Mauser, both commercial rifles. No matter what I did, I couldn't get a resized case to chamber in either one. I used an RCBS sizer die and they chambered properly. The Lee die resized enough for about a dozen rifles over the years, but not those two. The Lee dies went on my give-away table and I use the RCBS dies and a new set of Reddings.
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You'll be sad when you get another 30-06 down the road and the RCBS die sizes TOO much :)

I never sell my dies now.. factory chambers vary WAY too much. For what they are worth to sell vs rebuy, may as well keep them around.

Jerry
 
It seems I discovered what my issue was last week. I bought the press used and it came with a loose bag of shell holders. From some pictures I wrongfully assumed that these shell holders were RCBS and therefore I needed a #3. I said that the 7.62 brass seated well with 1/2 turn but that must have been premature or I had tested it on one lucky case because when I went to size the 7.62 it still wouldn't work. I tried everything until I eventually rechecked the baggy of shell holders and found one that held the cases much more snugly. Happened to be a #2 so therefore they must be LEE shell holders not RCBS *facepalm*. With the correct shell holder, all the 7.62 sized nicely and fit well in the Lyman case gauge and my rifle. Everyone predicted shell holder issues and they were absolutely right!

So it all came down to my own ignorance. Interestingly, I tried going back to the LEE die but they still didn't size properly (the 7.62). I will do further testing on this later because it was late and I didn't fiddle with it for too long. The combination of LEE shell holder and RCBS die sized it all perfectly. If the Lee die works I could possibly exchange my RCBS die for a neck sizer but I might as well keep it and bite the bullet haha pardon the pun.

As everyone has mentioned to avoid surplus brass, I inspected every piece carefully, following the classic "if in doubt, throw it out". Maybe about 20 had ejector dents or corrosion that wasn't adequately removed by my tumbler so they met my linesman pliers and the garbage can just incase. I have since bought some new 308 brass that I'll use once the surplus is used up - I thought I'd grab it now before our Canadian dollar plummets any more and prices go up.

Thanks everyone!
 
make sure the neck expander button is nicely polished and isn't pulling the shoulder up. add a wee bit of lube to the inside of the case neck before running the case through the press.
 
Check your dies. A fellow I know (in the mirror) had troubles like yours with .308. Turns out that he had mistakenly bought NECK SIZE ONLY die set. When I ---he got the correct full length dies all was good.
 
I full length resized a fellows own spent shells and they still would not fit in his rifle and they were SB dies. They worked perfect in my rifle but not his. Soured him an ever considering reloading. I never did figure out what was the problem. My rifle at the time was a Remington semi auto. I still use the brass in my Winchester also.
 
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