Redding Type S bushing dies. Even then the FL bushing dies make straighter ammo than the NK bushing dies. The only time the NK dies have a chance of keeping up is on tight necked chambers.
Full or neck sizing
- Thread starter japlume
- Start date
Redding Type S bushing dies. Even then the FL bushing dies make straighter ammo than the NK bushing dies. The only time the NK dies have a chance of keeping up is on tight necked chambers.
Any time you use a bushing die and reduce the neck diameter .005 or more you can induce neck runout because the bushing floats. If you go to AccurateShooter.com you will see many of the competitive shooters have gone to full length sizing dies. And bushing dies to be effective should have tight neck chambers that do not require reducing the neck as much as a standard factory chamber.
I just bought a new .223 Forster full length die and plan to send it back to Forster to have the neck honed.
FL Bushing Dies vs. Honed FL Dies
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/fl-bushing-dies-vs-honed-fl-dies/
"Alternative to Bushings — Honed Full-Length dies
Conventional, non-bushing full-length sizing dies can create ultra-accurate ammo with very low run-out. For some applications, we prefer a non-bushing FL die over a bushing die — so long as the neck tension is correct. But many FL dies have an undersized neck diameter so you end up with excess neck tension, and you work the brass excessively. Forster offers a simple, inexpensive solution — honing the neck diameter to whatever size you want."
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Do you outside neck turn your brass?
And if you turn, do you turn after every firing?
How much neck tension are you trying for?
unfortunately, best results from bushing type neck dies are with outside neck turned brass and 1 to 2 thou neck tension max.
If building ammo for hard kickers or dangerous game, you will likely want more neck tension and here, a FL die may be the answer.
They work great for many accuracy minded shooters but that ammo is more coddled then hunted with.
Jerry
Oh wow, just when I thought I was understanding reloading, I just had to read this...
I was planning on going with a Redding competition die set, with the body and bushin(id get two bushings, 1&2 thou) neck sizer. Seems I'll be needing a neck turner and a runout gauge too now. This Forum makes me spend alot of money....
I was planning on going with a Redding competition die set, with the body and bushin(id get two bushings, 1&2 thou) neck sizer. Seems I'll be needing a neck turner and a runout gauge too now. This Forum makes me spend alot of money....
If you have a off the shelf factory rifle with a standard SAAMI chamber you are better off with a standard full length resizing die.
Too much of what bench rest shooters do with their custom chambered rifles filters down to us and it is over kill.
My advice is to buy a Forster bench rest full length die with its high mounted expander that produces very little neck runout.
You can't make a silk purse from a sows ear and a Redding competition die set will not make a SAAMI chamber smaller.
You need a tight neck chamber to get the most out of a bushing die and the worst neck runout I get during sizing is with a bushing die and my fat factory chambers. Any time you reduce the neck diameter .005 or more with a bushing die it can and will induce neck runout. This is because the bushing floats and it is recommended when reducing the diameter .005 or more when using bushing dies to reduce the neck diameter in two sizing steps.
Forster Full Length Sizing Die Cutaway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgIfzsH8N6k
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I agree wholeheartedly with those who have recommended the FL sizing die for your type of reloading/shooting.
I started reloading in 1965/6 and have come to some conclusions regarding neck sizing vs FL sizing.
Where the neck sizing comes to the fore is when you have a custom rifle with a tight neck/chamber, you turn your brass
for consistent neck thickness, and you anneal as it is required.
For all other applications, FL sizing is likely to give superior accuracy, and will not become difficult to chamber after 4/5 firings.
Additionally, for hunting, a neck sized round will not chamber even if the slightest bit of crud finds it's way into the chamber,
due to the near zero clearances. This is where "Murphy" rears his ugly head....and I have seen this very thing happen.
Regards, Dave.
I started reloading in 1965/6 and have come to some conclusions regarding neck sizing vs FL sizing.
Where the neck sizing comes to the fore is when you have a custom rifle with a tight neck/chamber, you turn your brass
for consistent neck thickness, and you anneal as it is required.
For all other applications, FL sizing is likely to give superior accuracy, and will not become difficult to chamber after 4/5 firings.
Additionally, for hunting, a neck sized round will not chamber even if the slightest bit of crud finds it's way into the chamber,
due to the near zero clearances. This is where "Murphy" rears his ugly head....and I have seen this very thing happen.
Regards, Dave.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
Question for you all:
If you do neck size, do you have to have a FL die as well to bump the shoulder every 4-5 reloadings, or will something else do that??
-J.
If you do neck size, do you have to have a FL die as well to bump the shoulder every 4-5 reloadings, or will something else do that??
-J.
When I neck size only I use a FL die to bump the shoulder when it needs it. For the calibers I don't have a neck sizing collet die I just set up my FL die to kiss the shoulder everytime I load the brass and then never have the problem to start with.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
A few points to consider...
FL sizing die dimensions vary ALOT - many dies are set up for SAAMI min dimensions and everything in between
Factory chambers dimensions vary ALOT - many are set up for SAAMI max dimensions and everything in between
SAAMI allows a range of tolerance in all dimensions and with an undersized die with an oversized chamber... end result, case failure.
FL sizers is not a dimension. It is a style of squishing your case.... and each manf has their version of what they feel is best.
So, with reloading, there are very few absolutes... the only thing a reloader must understand is what each stage is trying to accomplish and what tool(s) can best achieve that.
FL sizing as "best solution" can very well leave you with a big mess in your rifle when you least expect nor need it.
Build your ammo to function properly and then worry about accuracy... both can go hand in hand. For those suggesting that FL sizing is best for factory and not match chambers, they dont get it.... FL sizing is better suited to "smaller" match chambers then larger factory chambers
Ironically, if you set up your brass for smallest dimensions and you have one of those oversized chambers.... function may be assured but so will dysfunction.
YMMV
Jerry
FL sizing die dimensions vary ALOT - many dies are set up for SAAMI min dimensions and everything in between
Factory chambers dimensions vary ALOT - many are set up for SAAMI max dimensions and everything in between
SAAMI allows a range of tolerance in all dimensions and with an undersized die with an oversized chamber... end result, case failure.
FL sizers is not a dimension. It is a style of squishing your case.... and each manf has their version of what they feel is best.
So, with reloading, there are very few absolutes... the only thing a reloader must understand is what each stage is trying to accomplish and what tool(s) can best achieve that.
FL sizing as "best solution" can very well leave you with a big mess in your rifle when you least expect nor need it.
Build your ammo to function properly and then worry about accuracy... both can go hand in hand. For those suggesting that FL sizing is best for factory and not match chambers, they dont get it.... FL sizing is better suited to "smaller" match chambers then larger factory chambers
Ironically, if you set up your brass for smallest dimensions and you have one of those oversized chambers.... function may be assured but so will dysfunction.
YMMV
Jerry
You know, the disclaimers are put in to make neck sizing work, the more it reinforces the point that in most cases FL sizing usually works better.
Ed,
I agree that custom FL dies are a joy to be around. I used to love it if I had a problem with a sizing die because after i sent it back with a handful of fired brass they always came back fitted so nicely that they just nudged the brass a bit. It was like a free custom die. Some of them would only work on the brand of cases I sent them.
Ed,
I agree that custom FL dies are a joy to be around. I used to love it if I had a problem with a sizing die because after i sent it back with a handful of fired brass they always came back fitted so nicely that they just nudged the brass a bit. It was like a free custom die. Some of them would only work on the brand of cases I sent them.
