FYI, Avoid Winchester White Box

crashcollins said:
Just a quick word that commercial ammo may not work in a sks. It's recommended to stick with milspec ammo in a sks to prevent slam fires. WWB slam fired in one of my sks's as well. But in my other guns it all has worked flawlessly (9mm, 223, 7.62x39 and .308 )
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Correct me if I'm wrong but commercially made 7.62x39 is a .308" bullet loaded to Rugger specs while surplus ammo is .3105" bullet loaded to Russian specs isn't it?
And if so are any commercial ammo manufactures making it to Russian specs?
 
^^^ Your wrong. Most 7.62x39 will have a .311 or .311 bullet. This includes all commercially loaded, as well as surplus. You are correct that Ruger mini 14's (and a couple other guns) do have a .308 bore diameter.
 
I would also be curious about your firing pin protrusion and point.
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The rifle has fired hundreds of federal rounds with zero problems. The rifle is fine.

Please also note that some Winchester 30'06 (totally different caliber and rifle) 'supreme' have about half of the fired cases showing flattened and backing out primers indicating either too hot of a load or incorrectly seated primers.

Even the 270 'supreme' ammo has wild (3.5 grain) variances in weight where the fired brass does not, indicating the inconsistency is not with the brass but with the actual powder charge. 3.5 grains difference in charge is pretty huge.

The Federal and Federal Premium both measure at less than 1 grain variance. Handloads even less.

I bought these boxes of Winchester because they were cheaper than Federal on a whim. Given their extreme low quality, it's a false economy.
 
I'm not a fan of Winchester ammo. It all seems like cheap crap in one way or another. And I could swear the box of .45ACP I bought were actually reloaded...I still have a box of Winchester 12ga target load but after that I'm done with them, Federal has always performed better for me.
 
Just for s..ts and giggles, I recommend the OP write it up and file (or attempt to file) a claim against an American company in an Alberta court. Let us know how that turns out.

Especially if you have not written a complaint to Winchester, c/w good photos. And kept the rest of the box(es) of suspect Winchester ammo, complete with all fired cases, and can swear that you have not, fired the rifle subsequently.

For many times the price of the rifle, I am sure White Labs or some other reputatble ballistics lab can analyse the brass to see if it was subjected to significant overpressure, or point to some other cause of the damage.

Don't get me wrong. Every ammo manufacturer makes booboos. But I think the disclaimer on the box will tell you their liability is limited to replacing the cost of the ammo. Don't agree, don't load the ammo or trip the trigger. If the failure is catastrophic, the injury horrendous, and the proof conclusive, an ambulance chaser will take your case and perhaps win himself a small fortune. But gas etching on a bolt face?

Damages pretty well limited to the price of a replacement bolt and fitting by a 'smith, say three hundred bucks. Ambulance chaser takes three grand off the top, maybe it is cheaper as a wall hanger.

That's just me.
 
Flattened primers are not the best indication of high pressure loads. Lots of people see a flattened primer and assume high pressure right away, it is only an indicator and more investigation is required such as case head expansion and velocity for example. You can get flattened primers on perfectly safe to fire loads sometimes. Some manufacturers use very soft/thin primer cups that can deform easily as well.
 
Idcurrie said:
You can sell the debt to a collection agency. The cost to file is less than $80. It may be worth it just to register my dissatisfaction in a more forceful way.
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Yes, I'm aware, at a deep discount, typically. That's if they're even interested in having to chase Winchester (aka Olin Corporation) for recovery of that debt. I'd expect the social media etc would be just as effective in registering your dissatisfaction in a visible way. But its your money. :D
 
read on another forum about 160gr accubond winchester supreme ammo guy opened the box to find bunch of the tips (3-4 per box) had fallen off, and there seems to be some excess jacket material around where the bullet meets the neck. looks like Winchester is having some major QC problems
 
there seems to be some excess jacket material around where the bullet meets the neck.
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I'm not sure this is an accident. All of the 'Supreme' accubond ammo I have here from Winchester has this. I think it may be on purpose for some reason...
 
From the sounds of your description of the flattened primers and some of them having primers back out on the factory ammo, it sounds like you have a headspace problem, not an ammo problem. If you have excessive headspace, it can lead to the primer coming out of the pocket (slightly) then the case coming back and causing a flattened primer. If the case does not come back, you are left with primers backed out. Not an excessive pressure indicator.
If the primers are coming out due to excessive headspace, potentially you have leakages around the pocket, discolouring (and maybe etching) the bolt face.
You really should amend your post title, as it is not White Box you are talking about, it is one box of Winchester you have had problems with.
 
So why are all federal and bandloads 100% okay?

The Winchester ammo is the only problem. More likely the primers were not seated correctly.
 
Idcurrie said:
I have an unused box of the stuff (for 270) except with accubonds. When weighing them, I find that the weight of each cartridge varies by up to 3.5 grains! Normally, I would chalk that up to variences in the brass but upon weighing the spent brass, there is only minimal differences in weight.

When I weigh Federal premium and federal blue box the difference in weight between cartridges is always less than 1 grain and my hand loads vary by only 0.5 - 0.8 grains.

The Winchester ammunition seems to have empirically measured large variances in powder charges. What a bunch of sloppy garbage!



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Or empirically measured not-so-large variances in bullet weight.;)

After reading a few of your comments about ammunition, might I suggest a reloading manual. Not because you may or may not want to get into reloading, but to enhance your understanding of ammunition and how it is assembled in general.:)
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After reading a few of your comments about ammunition, might I suggest a reloading manual. Not because you may or may not want to get into reloading, but to enhance your understanding of ammunition and how it is assembled in general.
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Might I suggest you read the thread more thoroughly. ;) I do reload. As I noted, my own reloads all vary in weight by less than half a grain. The federal ammunition I have varies by less than 1 grain. Only the Winchester ammunition has large variances in weight. The spent brass from said Winchester ammo has no large variances. That leaves the powder charge. Unless you're saying that the bullets vary in weight by 3.5 grains...

I have weighed many different bullets and they're never off by 0.1 grains.

I've eliminated the brass as the variable so whether it's the bullets (unlikely) or the powder (very likely), the ammo is garbage.
 
I have had some serious issues with Winchester's higher end ammo. My solution was to start making my own. No one to blame but myself for the #### ups...
 
Gunnerlove said:
Keep measuring, I have had batches of 62 gr bullets with an easy 3 gr spread.
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I'm curious, what brand of bullets? If you're near mad load, those 3 extra grains could put you over your pressure threshold. I'd like to know what brand so I can avoid them.
 
Idcurrie said:
I'm curious, what brand of bullets? If you're near mad load, those 3 extra grains could put you over your pressure threshold. I'd like to know what brand so I can avoid them.
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If 3gr puts you over, you were over to start with.

On the same line as above, what bullets are you using that only ever vary by 0.1gr? Certainly not WINCHESTER bulk......:)
 
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