GAP Rifles

Jerry brought up a point about McMillan stocks and their struture without aluminium bedding blocks. Maybe someone on this forum knows of tests that have been done with regards to the strength of a stock and what it can withstand but I'm pretty sure that the hand picked torture tester from the US Military have done things to their guns that might seem illegal in our books all in the name of science and insurance that their best shooters are getting what they need to do the job.

Another issue was raised with regards to a BR gunsmith not taking the same amount of time and care on a Tactical type gun vs a BR gun. If this is the case, personally I would use that gunsmiths services because obviously he doesn't see the importance of a tac driver in that type of application.

As far as bringing guns across, I know one gunsmith very well that has had SO much headache dealing with customs on both sides and the EXCITED STATES OF AMERICA that he won't be bringing any more guns across after today. The state department loves to play GOD and there is NO reason for some of the things they do and laws they come up with so if you really need a gun out of the states that badly, prepare to increase your advil intake. If you have any problem with that gun what-so-ever, sucks to be you. Customs on both sides seize guns all the time based on how they feel that day and if you didn't dot an 'i' or cross a 't' you're F*CKED. This is coming from someone that does this type of paperwork on an on going basis knowing full well what the laws are and who actually knows the law better then 99% of the customs agents at any given port. It's just not worth it.

Regarding keeping Canadian business in Canada, we're going to see some tougher times coming up soon with Kabella's moving across Canada now starting on the East Coast. We'll probably see Canadian Distributors take a beating which will filter down to the various gunshops we all know and love. Just imagine, with the little guys out of the way, if the big box retailers don't have what you're after, who are you going to buy it through???
 
Glock-a-maniac said:
Maybe someone on this forum knows of tests that have been done with regards to the strength of a stock and what it can withstand but I'm pretty sure that the hand picked torture tester from the US Military have done things to their guns that might seem illegal in our books all in the name of science and insurance that their best shooters are getting what they need to do the job.
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Well, I seem to recall in Mike Lau's book there was something about the USMC only ever sending one McMillan stock back broken, and that one had been accidentally dropped out of a helicopter...
 
Another issue was raised with regards to a BR gunsmith not taking the same amount of time and care on a Tactical type gun vs a BR gun. If this is the case, personally I would use that gunsmiths services because obviously he doesn't see the importance of a tac driver in that type of application.
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If the accuracy of ANY custom rifle is of little importance to ANY gunsmith, I would question his work ethic and the build's overall attention to detail. Does that mean you would pay the same amount of money regardless of wether or not the guy did a great job or a lousy one?

If you're building this uber cool and expensive long range rifle, do you want attention to detail or do you want it slammed together?

Glock, what's the point of buying a Nesika action if the quality of the machine work involved in assembling the rifle doesn't at least match the quality of the action? The rifle is only going to be as good as its weakest link.

Garbage in - garbage out...
 
I have seen a box of broken McMillan stocks that the Canadian Cadet rifle course has produced let alone pitching them out of helicopters. I don't know know of any written "torture test" but would love to see it if it exists. Old story, just because the military uses it doesn't make it the best there is. We do hunting stocks for a company and they get an aluminum bedding chassis added. Why? They are 6K rifles and they needed some more features!
 
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I think the word should read "wouldn't use" instead of 'would use'.

I was simply making a point that accuracy today has moved up into the microscopic. A sub MOA rifle is right off the dealers shelf and a 1/2 MOA is nothing much to right home about.

I was NOT implying that any smith would do a lesser job based on its end use or customer. However, by nature of the environment of a working rifle, certain steps have to be changed to ensure proper functioning. Some of these steps can reduce accuracy.

But a locked up/jammed rifle is not very accurate at all.

There is little doubt that product from all the top ranked stock makers can handle the rigours of use. I just don't see 'baseball bat' as SOP.

I just don't understand why everything has to be so HEAVY.

An automatic assault rifle used/abused by everyone is made up of plastic and alum with a sprinkling of steel. Used to weigh 6.5 lbs and could happily fire away until one ran out of ammo. How many AR stocks do you hear about being broken? Some of these are used as battering rams!

Now the best long arm must be so ruggedized that it gives you a hernia carrying in the field. WHY? I really doubt its for softening recoil. Thems big strong tough boys carrying this gear. My thought is that one would be ultra careful not to break that which keeps them alive and does their job.

Light things are easier to drag quietly the last time I checked.

Why can't the sniper rifle weigh 9lbs ready to go? We build tack driving hunting rifles at almost 1/2 that weight so doubling the mass should leave alot of room for rugged.

For me, if I needed to hoof 17lbs of rifle, give me a 9lbs rifle that can be folded and slung on my back, a 7lbs assault rifle and an extra lb of water.

Jerry

PS why couldn't the 'rifle' be an upper for the M4?

24" upper in 6.5 or 7mm SOCOM (no it doesn't exist but just think 458 SOCOM necked down). Two pins and you have the upper in place. Center feed out of a reg AR mag. 7 would fit nicely in a 20rd mag.

As a SWAG, the 6.5 Socom should be able to push a 123gr Scenar to 6.5-250 performance or 2800fps. Which would easily exceed 6.5 Grendel performance.

That would make the M4/upper a 1000yd capable rig.

With scope, this upper would only weigh 5 lbs with optics and a suppressor.

Now that is lightening the load.
 
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Good point Jerry. If I ever start carving my own action, I'll definitely look into lighter weight materials and more advanced muzzle breaks.
 
Another issue was raised with regards to a BR gunsmith not taking the same amount of time and care on a Tactical type gun vs a BR gun. If this is the case, personally I would use that gunsmiths services because obviously he doesn't see the importance of a tac driver in that type of application.

Sorry, my bad on making that slight error regarding using and NOT using a gunsmith with this type of work ethic. I'm sure most of you knew what I ment. LOL
 
Glock, come up with a 6lbs working rifle (8lbs with scope and suppressor) that is ruggedized and can sustain sub MOA accuracy at 600yds after 15rds of rapid fire and you will retire a very popular and wealthy guy!

That would be very cool tech and NOT beyond the realm of contemporary design or materials.

Just need a paradigm shift....

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
I scratched my head when I read that too. Doesn't the McM stock come with an Alum chassis?

If it does, why would you need to pillar bed?

If it does come with a drop in Alum chassis, why wouldn't you bed it properly as the inletting on these stocks are usually horrid. Sorry, applying large amounts of torque to bend an action to a crush fit is not my idea of accuracy.

So instead, they prefer to balance a good action on the top of two posts and let all the recoil/torque forces slosh around between the action and whatever chassis it runs into.

I hope they also upgrade your action screw bolts to like GRADE 12.

Seems the basics are being ignored...

Jerry
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NO HS precision stocks come with the Aluminium bedding block
 
I'm not bashing anyone just stating facts. I find it very wierd that alot of people are stating facts or here say about mcmillan stocks that are very untrue and it tells me you don't know anything about the company or their products. They are an awesome product from their factory and do not have aluminum bedding blocks. The tactical stocks are not showpieces but are a great working and feeling piece of kit. Yes there is quality in their products. I also find it funny that everyone says to buy Canadian but most of the businesses on here are selling US product. Why are all the products that are Canadian made so much more money than a US comparison? It's called markup for no reason. I know people are going to flame me but I have a point. I have no problem with Canadian stuff, but we all need to be fair and not mark everything up just because we know people can't get it anywhere else. Everyone must do what they deem to be right for themselves. I'm not going to buy Canadian if the item is double the US price for no reason just to keep the Canadian dealer in business. We all need to be fair with our prices. I see alot of well priced Canadian fellas but I also see alot of very high for no reason prices guys. We all need to be wise and hear everyones opinion and make our own decision and then we will have the right one. Please don't bash Mcmillan and say that Canadian stock makers are a better product. If they were then why are they copying Mcmillan's designs. Wierd eh. All stocks are decent including Mcmillan. Just decide what you want and you have the one that's right for you. Not just stocks but all firearm related products. Gap included. Someone had it right. Gap holds resale value as does a Mcmillan stock. Paying for a name now pays back later if that is what you are looking for. It's not necessarily a product that is way better than someone else but you get the picture. Just remember I'm not attacking anyone. Just stating my observations.
 
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There is a GAP on EE for 5K, no scope. Not sure how that price fits into this scenario.

Just so everyone knows, we manufacture composite stocks in Canada, for a living.

I'll bet McMillan sells more stocks in Canada than we do and in fact there are many custom builders in Canada that have never spoken with us about stocks and may not know we exist. I don't know that this proves anything one way or the other. I do know that if you have a competition Palma gun with one of our stocks it is more highly thought of. Perhaps this is one of the reasons we supply USAMU with stocks when they build new guns. In the sniper gun game name really does sell and when the forums are constantly giving excellent free advertising to one brand it can't help but do well. But that still does not make it better, or worse for that fact. Many people compare based on hearsay. And speaking of fact when I make a comment I only say what I personally know to be fact and have seen it for myself. And while I continue to ramble on, many Canadians prefer to buy US because they just think it is better, and to each their own!
 
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