Getting Desperate.....

Wrong Way

Wrong Way

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Ontario.....far enough N of T.O. that I (almost) c
I have hunted my ass off this year, and with a little over two weeks left in the season I have still not got my deer....even worse, I have yet to SEE a deer. In 15 years of hunting this area, I have never failed to see at least 20 deer while hunting, and have seen exactly 1 coyote in a decade and a half....this year I have seen no deer, but 7 coyotes.

The snowfall has confirmed my fears....I now know that it's not me not seeing deer, but in fact there are none. No tracks, none of the game trails show any signs of movement, nothing on the game cams, no tracks in their traditional bedding areas....nothing.

I'm literally down to about 3 lbs of burger in the freezer.....and game meat is all we really eat here. Not sure exactly how I'm going to handle this one....all I know is that the pleasure of the hunt has now been replaced with the realization of NEEDING to get an animal....and that sucks.

I guess that's what happens when some citiot in an office in downtown TO is calling the shots on wildlife management.

Rant over......
 
dutchhunter said:
Well go were the deer are why keep going some were there are no deer .dutch
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Boy, I never woulda thought of that....thanks for the advice.

I didn't know there were no deer for sure until this week with the snow....therefore didn't get permission anywhere else....you'd figure that with access to 1000+ acres I'd have been able to find some sign *somewhere*....some of my stands back on to a provincial park FFS....there *should* be deer!
 
I hae ben threw the same thing on are home farm aways got deer there . Then for two years we seen no deer at all . Come to find out that a farm not to far away had a crop sweet corn. Every deer with in 10 miles had piled in to that farm .go figger .not trying to be rude but that is the number one rule of deer hunt . Hunt were the deer are .i was invited to hutn a camp up near bancroft this year 8000 acers 6 dogs 9 guys one deer all week thy just were not there this year . I wil try again next year just hoping thy will have come back . Good luck with the rest of your season dutch
 
Coyotes have been staying packed up all year long for at least the last 5 years in my area. I'm aware of 3 instances where they have gone after horses. 20 years ago this was unheard of. Sheep, goats, calves- yes, but not mature cattle or horses.

I used to do a lot of coyote hunting with hounds- from about 1990 til about 7 years ago. When the coyotes heard the hounds tongueing they didn't stick around to see what was coming. Now I coon hunt with hounds and my buddies and I have had the coyotes coming looking for our hounds. One night last year they actually followed 2 of my friends while they led their hounds back to the truck.

Their larger size and packing up is allowing the coyotes to do a lot more damage to deer populations and livestock. And they are becoming a lot bolder. One of the guys at Gagnon's was telling me about a customer who set up a game camera last spring, by a coyote den. Apparently the camera picked up the coyotes bringing numerous fawns to their den. I'll double check what the number of fawns was and the location, the next time I'm at Gagnon's.

Unfortunately, the MNR is likely to take their typical, head in the sand, approach. Pretend like there isn't a coyote issue, until they have to cancel deer seasons in various WMU's.
 
Wildlife in the east is just plain hurting. Almost every thread where I read people saying "NOTHING this year..." is from the east, Ontario in particular. In Alberta, the Yukon, and BC, we have more wolves and coyotes, more cougar and grizzly too, and more deer. Predators aren't the be all and end all reason people aren't seeing deer out there. Deer and predator populations naturally balance themselves. Ontario just has a lot more people and development; that's where the issues lie from this fellas perspective.
 
Ardent,

The only significant predator throughout southern Ontario is the coyote. We don't have packs of timber wolves, or grizzly's or significant numbers of mountain lions- just coyotes. Whitetail populations through the agricultural belts have always been good, but have dropped drastically in recent years in many areas. It's not because of development- there's tons of farmland and conservation areas. If anything, development has slowed in the last few years. What has changed is that we didn't have coyotes here until the 70's- and in the last 10 years the size and behaviour of the coyotes has evloved.
 
Ardent said:
Wildlife in the east is just plain hurting. Almost every thread where I read people saying "NOTHING this year..." is from the east, Ontario in particular. In Alberta, the Yukon, and BC, we have more wolves and coyotes, more cougar and grizzly too, and more deer. Predators aren't the be all and end all reason people aren't seeing deer out there. Deer and predator populations naturally balance themselves. Ontario just has a lot more people and development; that's where the issues lie from this fellas perspective.
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My stands are set on 1000 acres of sole access land, backing on to 10000 acres of provincial park..... Pretty much removes the "human" factor. It's the yotes, plain and simple.
 
we are in the same boat. I've hunted my ass off this year, atleast a couple nights a week and one day on a weekend and I've only seen one deer, that was Halloween night. I havn't shot one in 3 years, the population has taken a #### kicking the last 3 years, I'm getting desperate as well.
 
Wow that is some terrible hunting. If it makes you feel better - I saw over 30 mule deer this am and about 12 or so Whitetails. I am hunting coyotes and big game season is over so they are feeling more lively and showing themselves more. I only saw 1 coyote this morning - I tried to shoot it but my rifle experienced a jam and he got away.
 
Wrong Way said:
Boy, I never woulda thought of that....thanks for the advice.

I didn't know there were no deer for sure until this week with the snow....therefore didn't get permission anywhere else....you'd figure that with access to 1000+ acres I'd have been able to find some sign *somewhere*....some of my stands back on to a provincial park FFS....there *should* be deer!
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You should practise scouting then?
 
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i believe along the same lines that the coyoteswith the timber companies cutting there deer yards, plus the fact the dnr. set the license systemfor bucks only doe if your lucky at the draw for doe between that an the coyotesthe season shut down to early warm weather etc,not to much moving . better luck next year ?
 
It's been theorized that coyote litter sizes increase when they are under pressure. Perhaps what you're seeing is simply the coyote's reaction to the same lack of game.
 
We push small bushes for deer . And out of one 40 acers we put out 7 deer and two yotes in one push .so seeing yotes is not enough reason to not see any deer as thy do live side by side .i shot two yotes well deer hunt last week and seen over 20 deer .all with 9in a few consesions dutch
 
Coyotes and deer have coexisted for thousands of years. I don't think the coyotes, even though they do prey on deer occasionally, can really affect the deer population. I have seen deer put the run on a coyote, actually, and have pushed many coyotes and deer out of the same bushes.

Whatever the cause of your lack of game, I cannot imagine coyotes are the main reason. If you hunt an area for a few days, snow or not, you should be able to tell if deer are using the area. Tracking individual animals is hard without snow, but it is quite possible to see sign that indicates they are there, or not, without snow.

Mature forest is not ideal for deer. Look for areas with edges, breaks, diverse vegetation, scattered fields, etc. Those places provide ideal deer habitat.

Good luck finding where they are, because, as has been suggested, the first rule of successful hunting of anything, is to hunt where they live.
 
I've pulled 37 deer out of this area in 15 years, it's 2 min from my front door, I know the area and the deer inside out....nothing has changed. The ONLY thing I have noticed is tons of coyotes (and fishers)....never seen that before. My deer seasons up to this year have begun and ended on opening day....I've logged three weeks so far this year, and have not seen a damn thing.
 
I have seen coyotes run down deer - especially in deep snow and on frozen rivers/lakes. If coyotes start running in packs, they won't fool around with the small mammals like mice and rodents. They will definitely go after the bigger stuff.
 
I've seen coyotes kill deer too, but no matter how many coyotes there were in my area (and last year Sask. actually put a bounty on them there are so many) there were still lots of deer around. I don't think I have ever spent a day deer hunting that I didn't see coyotes too. If you see a coyote take a deer, it is BECAUSE there are still lots of deer around, both for them to take one, and for you to see it happen.

I just don't think coyotes are a limiting factor for deer populations. They are predators, and predators take prey, but as soon as the prey is gone, so are the predators. If you are seeing lots of coyotes and no deer, those coyotes are not living on deer. Look elsewhere for the cause of the deer population crash.
 
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