If you are seeing coyotes then there is deer hiding in there somewhere, coyotes gotta eat the same as we do and would not be in the area if there is no food available.
Getting Desperate.....
- Thread starter Wrong Way
- Start date
If you are seeing coyotes then there is deer hiding in there somewhere, coyotes gotta eat the same as we do and would not be in the area if there is no food available.
Pathfinder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northeast Ontario
I struck out this year too.....cant say there wasnt' any deer on the land I hunted just nothing moving in the daytime and not enough guys to drive them out. (3.5 days hunt mind you)
Ill be hunting the big bush in North Western Ontario next year.....something different wont' hurt. I havent' heard that many doing all that well outside of those I know who hunt the north west. The land I used to hunt near Renfrew in 59 was also empty this year.
Ill be hunting the big bush in North Western Ontario next year.....something different wont' hurt. I havent' heard that many doing all that well outside of those I know who hunt the north west. The land I used to hunt near Renfrew in 59 was also empty this year.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I don't buy the 'coyotes are here, deer are gone' sentiment so common out east. Predator numbers are higher here, AND there are more species of them, and deer are doing better than ever. Good chance you're just witnessing the population cycle at it's low spot Wrong Way. The cycles are long period, and the deer may well have dropped in numbers and moved to new areas.
Wrong Way
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
^^^Its possible, but you have to admit.....this isnt just a casual observation. To go from seeing tens of deer every season (on the first day!) and virtually NO yotes (only one in 14 years) to seeing absolutley no deer but a bunch of yotes, all in one year seems a little more than coincendence. Maybe the yotes decimated the fawn population this past spring....who knows?
canadian hunter312
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County
he's just using it as an excuse for not getting a deer yet. it's actually a very common excuse for those who aren't willing to change and adapt just like the animals do. always looking for something else to blame when it;s really themselves they should be blaming for not seeing deer.
but, i guess yotes and deer can't co-exist in his bush....just every other one in north america
you don't think coyotes take a toll on deer? go dig up any old den I bet you pull out multiple deer skulls. One guy in a local farmer magazine placed a trail cam near a coyote den, he has 14 different pics of coyotes bringing fawns back to the den in 3 months. They hammer fawns all spring long to feed their pups.
I might of seen 4 does with fawns all year around here, probably another 10-15 does without fawns, something is going on here.
I might of seen 4 does with fawns all year around here, probably another 10-15 does without fawns, something is going on here.
A casual observation from my area in Sask. Last year they had a bounty on yotes and quite a few were shot. This year I saw a lot more deer than last year. Most does I saw in the fall had fawns with them and the tracks on the fields show a pile more activity.
Last year I had at least five seperate packs of yotes located in my hunting area and this year I never even heard one.
Coinicidence ? I don't know but it makes you think.
Last year I had at least five seperate packs of yotes located in my hunting area and this year I never even heard one.
Coinicidence ? I don't know but it makes you think.
tactical870
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Buckhorn, Ontario
SHOOT THE COYOTES! They're a real issue in Ontario in the last few years and the way I see it, they've already screwed up your hunt when you see them. Might as well shoot 'em.
Pathfinder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northeast Ontario
I had read somewhere that in the East we were going to be in the 7th year of a Predator cycle.
It didnt' seem as bad on Manitoulin for wolves this year. I was told a lot of them got mangy.
Looking ahead it cant get that much worse, hopefully the winter isnt' too hard........
It didnt' seem as bad on Manitoulin for wolves this year. I was told a lot of them got mangy.
Looking ahead it cant get that much worse, hopefully the winter isnt' too hard........
NolanOsborn
Regular
- Location
- British Columbia
Coyote populations are high across all of ontario. Lots less turkeys around this year as well. I still got mine
Here's my 2 cents on the perceived decline in the deer population. In our area anyways. Yes the coyote population has increased substantially over the last 5-10 years. (as well as bears, that take more than their share of fawns) And Yes coyotes kill their share of deer, but they also dine on rabbits, mice, turkeys, grouse, etc. (anything they can get their teeth into) Around here despite the extremely high coyote numbers, there are tons of rabbits, grouse are on the upswing, turkeys darn near every where you look.
As for the deer around here, there are still tons of them, if you can find where they are. Deer have changed their habitats, feeding patterns etc over the last few years. My take on why is farming operations have drastically changed since the bottom has fallen out of the beef market over the past decade. A quick look around here and every other farm, and in some areas, every farm has giving up pasturing cattle and growing hay, to growing cash crops, corn, beans etc. The deer, and turkeys are all hanging around these easy food sources.
I've said it a hundred times to different people who claim coyotes are killing all the deer. If coyotes are killing all the deer we would all be tripping over rib cages and skulls.
I'm not saying they don't kill deer, its easy to figure out more coyotes eat more deer. In my opinion though they aren't the reason we as hunters aren't seeing as many deer. I rifle hunted 6 days this year and bow hunted approx. 7 days and counting and have seen 49 deer so far, 4 bears and 0 coyotes. That's just while hunting, that doesn't include countless other sightings driving around, etc. WMU's 43b, 82a, 84
As for the deer around here, there are still tons of them, if you can find where they are. Deer have changed their habitats, feeding patterns etc over the last few years. My take on why is farming operations have drastically changed since the bottom has fallen out of the beef market over the past decade. A quick look around here and every other farm, and in some areas, every farm has giving up pasturing cattle and growing hay, to growing cash crops, corn, beans etc. The deer, and turkeys are all hanging around these easy food sources.
I've said it a hundred times to different people who claim coyotes are killing all the deer. If coyotes are killing all the deer we would all be tripping over rib cages and skulls.
I'm not saying they don't kill deer, its easy to figure out more coyotes eat more deer. In my opinion though they aren't the reason we as hunters aren't seeing as many deer. I rifle hunted 6 days this year and bow hunted approx. 7 days and counting and have seen 49 deer so far, 4 bears and 0 coyotes. That's just while hunting, that doesn't include countless other sightings driving around, etc. WMU's 43b, 82a, 84
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With all due respect,some of you western boys don't have a clue what your talking about.Eastern coyotes are a completely different animal than what you are used to.They are much bigger,meaner,exhibit wolf pack-like behaviour and hunting strategies,and they certainly do eat one helluva lot of deer down east,especially when small game cycles are at a low.
Eastern coyotes have not "coexisted for thousands of years" with eastern whitetails,at least not in New Brunswick.Coyotes are a relatively new predator here,and eastern yotes in particulair are a relatively new predator period,evolving as much larger canines than their cousins to the west in the blink of an evolutionary eye.The first confirmed coyote ever recorded in NB was in the 1950's,and by the 70's they were well established throughout NB and NS.They've since migrated to PEI and NF on ice flows,where in the latter it is beleived they are most likely responsible for the recent crash in Woodland Caribou numbers.Trapping pressure and a strong fur market kept their numbers in check throughout the 80's,but thanks to pressure from the bunnyhugging antis,fur markets crashed in the early 90's and coyote numbers exploded here with nobody trapping.
NB imho has possibly the worst shape deer herd in North America at present?While deer numbers expand throughout most of their range in NA,our herd in NB is at it's lowest level in decades,from a peak of 250,000 in the mid 80's (when coincidentally coyote populations exploded)to a mere 60-70,000 head today.Coyotes are not the only factor,but coupled with bad forestry practices that destroy winter yards and harsh winters,it's a 1,2,3 knockout combo.
Anybody that thinks coyotes can't have a great effect on localized and regional deer populations likely hasn't hunted east of Ontario imho.They key in on Deer Wintering Areas(DWAs/deer yards)and can decimate the local herd in tough winters.They relentlessly stalk DWAs and pick off the weak and old first,then run the healthy deer to exhaustion when they are most vulnerable in the dead of winter and eat them too.Eastern Coyotes are also responsible for over 50% of fawn mortality here,followed by black bears and bobcats as the next most significant causes.
Please don't compare your cute little,mouse munching "prairie dogs" to the bloodthirsty,venison craving,wannabe wolves we have in the east,they are not the same critter. 80lb coyotes don't get to be 80lb coyotes by eating mice and grasshoppers.
canadian hunter312
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County
SHOOT THE COYOTES! They're a real issue in Ontario in the last few years and the way I see it, they've already screwed up your hunt when you see them. Might as well shoot 'em.
how does seeing a yote automatically screw up your hunt? if that were the case and deer avoided areas where a yote has been there wouldn't be a single deer around.
i was taking your post seriously until i read this...
Too much?Went overboard?LOL
Sorry,I get excited and overly passionate when I'm #####in about the state of our deer herd.But I aint $hittin ya in regards to 80lb yotes if that's what you meant?Sure they are rare,but they do exist.50-60 pounders are really big but not uncommon....80lbers are freakin HUGE!!It's OK,I figgered someone would call BS on it.....figgered they'd be from somewhere west of Ontario though?
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
gringrn, we have as many real wolves as coyotes here, and tons of deer. We western guys do indeed get it. The eastern coyote is a much fabled beast in the east, but it doesn't look like much beside a wolf. We have wolves everywhere up here, it's hard to deer hunt without crossing their tracks, and tons of deer. We also have cats and more bear as well. Just coyotes on their own aren't changing everything.
I agree 100%,coyotes aren't solely responsible,in fact,bad forestry practices are the main culprit,or at least forestry that is not deer-friendly.But when you combine the alarming loss of DWAs with harsh winters and an unprecedented amount of coyotes,it's a deadly combination for the deer.
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
The coyotes being a predator does effect the deer. Sometimes in numbers and more often in the behavior. Just speaking from personal experience in my area over many years. The coyotes are loving moving around during the day more and more just due to the vast numbers of them looking for food. The deer are there but from my observations they haven't been as active as before. The twilight movement has almot completely stopped and turned into almost exclusively complete darkness when they move. This is gathered from my observations in the field a long with trail cameras with time stamps over a 3 month period each year.
We will see how this progresses over the years and how the cycle moves.
We will see how this progresses over the years and how the cycle moves.
he's just using it as an excuse for not getting a deer yet. it's actually a very common excuse for those who aren't willing to change and adapt just like the animals do. always looking for something else to blame when it;s really themselves they should be blaming for not seeing deer.
but, i guess yotes and deer can't co-exist in his bush....just every other one in north america
