Stop jumping the issues around. You said heavy guns don't do well in IDPA because "lighter are better". I'm telling you that its not. The rules are as such that there is no real competition for a striker gun in SSP. There is dust cover rule in ESP. CDP is .45 ACP and dust cover.
Most of Tanfoglios are not IDPA legal. SIGs and Beretta's with SA/DA which are legal can't stand against strikers without modifications. So they can't in SSP.
There is no point of taking SSP to compete in ESP. You can, but there is no point.
In the IDPA world striker guns win, not because lighter plastic is magically better suited for the IDPA targets, but because rules are limiting the choice of gear. There are no striker heavy guns on the market. And there are plenty of sporting heavy guns which are no leagal in IDPA.
Of for heavens sake you again. All your comments on the rules were wrong. The Shadow, a gun that dominates IPSC Production, has been legal for a number of years for SSP and has made no impact on the sport. Virtually all steel guns that would be carried daily are legal in IDPA and yet the polymer guns prevail. The sport is based on concealed carry and defensive shooting. It is not steel shooting, USPSA, IPSC, or Bullseye. Some guns do better than others, get over it.
Now if you want to argue that polymer guns often are less expensive than steel guns and because polymer are lighter they are more popular to carry and because IDPA shooters in the US tend to compete with what they carry, the polymer guns almost by definition are more popular a case can be made. Until 2015 there were only three pistol divisions. One CDP, was shot principally by 1911's, an all steel gun. The 1911 platform was a consistent winner in ESP as an all steel gun until the polymer pistols, principally the Glock 34 began winning the division so your argument about the rules is rather hollow.
As to your comment about what shooters are drawn to when it comes to what they buy, you have to be living in a different universe if you think what wins on Sunday sells on Monday does not hold true. As my friend Matt points out Vogel lives on a different planet when it comes to shooting yet I know I have talked to Marksman shooters who bought the Glock 34 because of Vogel. Do you really think the CZ Shadow would have the following it has if it were not for the fact the gun has been in the hands of the winners for the past number of years. Come on, you are brighter than that. All your arguments on what guns were not allowed were wrong yet you keep going on. When I see evidence that the three major pistol divisions are regularly winning the major event I may change my mind but I don;t see it happening any time soon.
No the weight limit of 43 ounces was set initially to accommodate the heaviest guns around at the time that were frequently carried ie the 1911 5" for CDP. The other two divisions were initially set at 39 ounces because this limit caught virtually all 9MM steel guns then in production that were frequently carried in 1995. Several of us both in Canada and the US argued on behalf of CZ and other DA/SA guns to have the weight limit for SSP and ESP raised to be consistent with CDP. We were successful with the 2015 rule book revision as it made sense. The rule change just made the Shadow legal without having to buy different grips, thin grips made in Hungry, and using 10 round mags in the US.
Onagoth-No argument on the accuracy department. Two of us benched his Glock 34 vs my CZ 85 Combat a few years ago and at 15 yards the CZ was more accurate. Not by much and for the most part the difference was insignificant for the type of shooting we do in IDPA. The Shadow2 is over the weight limit for IDPA so lets just deal with the regular Shadow which is legal and is an excellent gun as you know. We also agree I am sure it is the archer not the arrow in virtually all cases and at the very top of the shooter list the winning performance comes down it seconds and sometimes less than seconds. Most of the top shooters get some form of support from the guns manufacturers whoose guns they shoot. Vogel does with Glock and of course he wins. But he is not alone in the winning circle. The guns that are in the hands of th winners in ESP, CDP and CCP are all polymer guns. I would have thought the CZ P-01 would have caught on in CCP but it hasn't yet.
All the absence of all the perceived advantages of all steel guns don't seem to impact the top shooters who are using polymer guns without the advanced checkering, undercut beavertail and trigger guard that are features of the Shadow2 for instance. Vogels 34 hardly moves when he shoots now, how much flatter can it be? The features most often referred to in the top all steel guns, the weight for example help the less endowed shooters more than the top folks. They seem to be able to win without the additional weight.
Go back to who shoots IDPA in the US and why. Most of the shooters use their carry guns. I see it at major matches in the US all the time. Guys come to the line with Sig 226's in IWB holsters as do Glock 17 shooters. They are participating in the event to test their skills against better stages than they likely see at their home clubs and compete with their friends and have fun, The guys who take the sport more seriously and are there to win almost invariably have kydex holsters, 1 3/4" saddle leather belts or the Wilderness Belts and either a Glock 34 or a M&P PRO on board. I see lots of G-17's, XD's, & M&P's, an occasional P-09 and a smatering of the less popular polymer framed guns. At last years WA State match I shot my CZ Shadowline and on my stage I may have seen a couple of other CZ's and a host of 1911's shooting CDP - not a real lot but not many.
It maybe because CZ still remains a boutique gun in the US. CZ Custom is just now getting the Shadow2 and it sells for around $1,900US I am told. I have not seen a regular Shadow listed and available on the CZ Custom website in at least two years. What seems to be true is you don't see the heavy steel guns being carried by many. Carrying >50 ounces of weight (43 oz gun + 18 rds) gets old real quick.
Good to hear you still have the Glock 34. Seems to me you won an Ontario plaque with that gun a few years ago.
Take Care and Shoot well. I liked the pictures you posted of the Shadow2 and the Tanfoglio. Very nice pair. I am afraid I will go forth in club IPSC matches armed with my recently acquired Shadow. I just have to change out the springs. I thnk my old Shadow I sold a few yeara ago had a better trigger out of the box than the new one I just bought. Not much different than my 75B New Edition.
Bob
What kind of ammo is considered "good" for 9mm guns like a q5? I'm new to this whole thing and haven't got a clue...
