GLOCK17 accuracy versus STI

cannonfodder said:
Freedom Ventures,
There are non 1911 shooters competing in IPSC with great results. Like Dave Sevigny, Sharon Zaffiro, and Debbie Keehart-Ross. All of whom captured top place at the 2002 World shoot. Yes they competed in production, Standard
and Production divisions respectively. How about Ernest Langdon. he won the CDP divison in 2003 with a SIG P220 in traditional double action. Beating many using custom 1911's. That alone proves that its not just equipment that produces a win.
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You changed the context of your argument, but I'll follow this turn - Your facts don't prove anything.
Sevigny and Keehart-Ross are irrelvant - they were shooting against other production guns.
Sharon Zaffiro's title is not a big deal. It's not like there was actually any real competition in ladies' standard division in 2002. The good ladies were all shooting Open.

I don't really follow IDPA much, but I'd like to know who was shooting custom 1911s against Ernest Langdon's Sig. Rob Letham? OK - Ernest did well. Me? - again, no big deal.

If you really want to compare similar level shooters with different type of guns - look at the Overall results for WSXIIV
Top Raced Up 1911s (Standard) 79.10% - Top Production - 72.27%, following an additional 9 raced up 1911 shooters.

I was there at the General Assembly in 1999 when production divison was formed - Everyone there agreed that a raced up Single Action 1911 was not going to be beaten by Glock, Sig or any of the other "typical" guns - hence the new division.

Back on track, You said
many competition shooters are not running raced up 1911's and still winning
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That, to me - inferred that people of the same shooting caliber with raced up 1911s are being beaten by people with non-raced up 1911 guns. That's not happening either.

Finally, geologist - I apologize for the hijack. To answer your question, an STI Edge is always going to be far more accurate than a stock glock. Many hours are spent by professional gunsmiths fitting and assembling every piece together. The Glock is assembled out of parts bins and nothing is fitted.

They are both built with different tasks in mind, though. Both are leaders at those tasks.
 
reddot said:
CDP = IDPA's Custom Defensive Pistol Division.
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I like the game of IDPA,
but it is a game. Not unlike the game of IPSC. You want realistic, have some one shoot back at you; then I will be impressed. (LOL)

Both give you excellent skills for shooting a handgun, wether it is a Glock, or a 1911/2011.

A lot of the top shooters in IPSC kick ass in a bad way in IDPA, as they find it a little slower, and the targets generally closer.
Matt Burkett, Dave Sevigny, etc....
 
well put..

Freedom Ventures said:
Back on track, You said That, to me - inferred that people of the same shooting caliber with raced up 1911s are being beaten by people with non-raced up 1911 guns. That's not happening either.

Finally, geologist - I apologize for the hijack. To answer your question, an STI Edge is always going to be far more accurate than a stock glock. Many hours are spent by professional gunsmiths fitting and assembling every piece together. The Glock is assembled out of parts bins and nothing is fitted.

They are both built with different tasks in mind, though. Both are leaders at those tasks.
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Freedom Ventures,
Here's a link of just who was shooting at the 2003 IDPA nationals.
http://www.idpa.com/matchresults/2003_nationals/nationals_2003.pdf

As I stated before, yes Sevigny and the others were competing in their respective stock and standard divisions. I feel that it still proves that DAO or traditional DA guns are doing quite fine in competition when compared to SA guns. To say they're non contendors is ignorant. The shooter is just as important as the equipment. Keep in mind my previous comment in regards to the shooter with the most money put into his rig and with the most practice usually scores well. This definitely holds true when observing those who run race guns. The guy who competes for kicks and doesn't care if he wins or not will not invest as much time and money as the guy who loves the thrill of competing.

Maurice,
IDPA is still a game. As far as I'm concerned its becoming too much like IPSC in that it is now a "sport" not a practical training environment. Is IPSC and IDPA fun? yes, but I find IPSC to be more about rules than actual shooting. Not to mention my distaste for poor tactics. Then again it is no longer a tactics/practical shooting association.

CF
 
I'll give you Langdon by beating Leatham - he proves your point, but my data on the last WS contradicts it - DA anything couldn't score close to SA 2011s. We're hijacking this thread - so we should agree to disagree.
 
Agreed. No doubt a fine 1911 can whoop a standard duty gun for sure. I just think its foolish for any 1911 shooter to think they don't have to worry about a stock gun catching them or keeping up. ;)


On a side note, lets not forget Miculek! That man could school a lot of auto shooters with his skills on a wheel gun.
CF
 
Shoot your revolver single action and then double action.If your doing everything right the score should be the same.If the score is not the same you need more practice.
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SA=DA with my SW 17 .22: YES
SA=DA with my .454 Casull: NO! :)

Lemme guess, asian guy, mid forties, drives a Mercedes S series, shoots at Ridgedale? (Could be way off, but he's shooting a .40 edge, shoot with him a good deal and a super nice fellow)
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Ardent: You're bang on!
 
yeah, but Miculek is a freak of nature! Have you seen his display that was on the History channel!!!!!!!!

There seem to be a lot of Different IDPA CDP divisions, are there divisions for DAO, and SA? I noticed Matt Burkett in a seperate division, but coming in first place.......
 
Freedom Ventures... To answer your question said:
Not always, if the quality control of the machined parts or product were high enough they would not required any fitting. Just because it takes hours for professional gunsmiths to assemble and fit does not make it more accurate.

The design of the 1911 is predated by the Model 1903 which makes the design over 100 years old. John Moses Browning's design was well ahead of its time and is still relevant. Most manufacturer's design, and quality control has improved vastly in the last 20 years.

In today's automotive, aircraft, and product industry there are few company's that sell products that requires custom fitting, if it is not designed to a high enough standard it is not cost effective. (ISO 9000 certified companies etc.)

When I assemble Jet engines, aircraft engines, jets, and helicopters, etc ...all those parts come from bins as well... none of them require fitting. :D

A custom 1911 like a custom Harley Davidson motorcycle is a beautiful piece of machinery.
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