People should be able to use what they like. The reason some get defensive when the subject comes up is that it doesn't seem like the lead-free crowd will be too eager to rush to the defence of lead bullets when the ban comes. Lead bans are already reality in much of Europe, and given how this government loves virtue signalling, it's only a question of when, not if, a ban happens in Canada.
going lead free
- Thread starter dogger1
- Start date
I hope it can continue to be my choice and for most of my hunting and all recreational shooting I will stay with traditional options. I have no qualms about monos effectiveness, 50 grain ttsx's have proven effective on whitetails. If I lived some place where I had more tag opportunity instead of 2 black bears and a whitetail each year and once every few decades a moose. As long as I remain in NB the odds of me being able to eat enough game shot with lead to have a negative impact is pretty slim. Between the way my work schedule goes each fall and the few tag opportunities I still have to seek most of my protein elsewhere. I am envious of those who have the opportunity to be concerned about that.
on a side note some of my guns are going to be lead jacketed only as thats the option i have,i see no reason why its going lead bullets vs no lead ,everybody should have there choices, i was merley pointing out what im doing for putting my meat on the table with,its not only the lead fragments but the vapour pruduced when the high speed bullet burns the lead to the heat that goes in the meat... i have been shooting lead for years and am making the switch....for my own reasons, no way i would want regulated bullets because a seagull died of lead poisoning.ive seen the difference when we had to switch over to steel for waterfowl.i beleive we should have a choice and our camps should not get split up over anything but we should all be united as sportsmen,hunters ,shooters ,shotgunners ect. we all should be united in one front as we are constantly under attack with peoples opinion on what we should be doing and taking our rights and traditions away from us. we are now in a dictatorite society and we are not the last of our kind if we can pass the traditions to the new generations.so much internet misinformation and bulling to get there own ways.. just saying everyone should stick together and become united and use what you decide is best for you...cheers george
I’m going to post right up front, I agree with you.
From an idealized theoretical standpoint, if we agree that socialized healthcare is beneficial to society, then there should be a societal push for optimal health to reduce expenditure of resources. Banning lead would be one such step. From a realists perspective, there are quite literally thousands of greater health hazards, starting with lack of exercise and highly processed foods. I don’t believe anyone wants that much government overreach and agree that banning lead for big game, while doing little else, will do essentially nothing.
My hope is that education and continuing advancement in projectile design will drive more hunters to non-tox voluntarily.
Interestingly, people nowadays buy super duper super short magnums and then fret about the costs of ammo ... so they buy super cheap cup - and- core ammo ... then shoot an animal at 50 yards. Fast forward to this discussion. And here’s my take: if you’re ready for game at long ranges, spend the money on ammo that won’t explode at short range. Otherwise, lead works very nicely in a well thought out hunting situation. I either use cast or solid copper ( depends on my mood) .. but never the cheap cup-and-core.
Big bore dinosaur
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- NORT OF COW.TOWN.EH
My buddy dave has sinus issues from all the time spent at the indoor range. Ventilation dosent replace the outdoors. The things we do for the love of the sport
I dont take deep breaths after burning 100+ grains of powder. Even outdoors your still exposed ... will it add up??? Time will tell I guess..
Needs less to say , copper solids are a must for hunting
It is a kick in the nutz that we can't use copper solids though...got a box of 9.3 solids in my 'Larder'.... what? For coyotes?
Well, I must admit, I found this thread much more interesting than I thought it would be.
Personally, in 30+ years of hunting, i've never really considered this as an issue. I guess i'm aware of it now and going forward, it'll work up more loads with TSX/TTSX and look into the GMX that was disucssed.
I do agree it's a matter of when (not if) the gvt bans lead bullets..
Sucks though... I though I had found my forever bullet in the Accubond (with a nod going to the Partition every now and then).
Personally, in 30+ years of hunting, i've never really considered this as an issue. I guess i'm aware of it now and going forward, it'll work up more loads with TSX/TTSX and look into the GMX that was disucssed.
I do agree it's a matter of when (not if) the gvt bans lead bullets..
Sucks though... I though I had found my forever bullet in the Accubond (with a nod going to the Partition every now and then).
prairie lover
CGN Regular
- Location
- southern MB
I wouldn't worry about lead in meat you eat, I've been following this discussion all over the web for years. I've yet to see one single person have elevated lead levels from eating game. We butcher all our own stuff and trim very liberally around a bullet hole to avoid any lead fragmentation.
Shooting indoors and cleaning cases is a different story. Be careful there. The lead dust from primers breathed in is far more dangerous. Imagine tumbler media thats years old......
Shooting indoors and cleaning cases is a different story. Be careful there. The lead dust from primers breathed in is far more dangerous. Imagine tumbler media thats years old......
New Camper
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lurking in the woods near SFRC.
Sorry, I've been busy the past few weeks. Thank you for the reply.
There is a Virus going around killing people by the thousands . and people driving around talking on cell phones not watching where they are going killing people . I would be more worried about those two issues more so than shooting Game with Lead bullets and consuming the meat after . a friend hunted more game then I could imagine and used anything for it . from a 22 to a 8mm Mauser etc and lived into his late 70 ties . paranoia will kill you first .
canadian hunter312
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County
Just like asbestos and smoking we’ll always have push back from folks unconcerned and with stories about Uncle Joe Blow who smoked til he was 97 and didn’t retire from the asbestos mine til 90 years of age. Whenever I meet those folks I look at their physical state and assess if I want to look like them at their age, the answer is more often than not, no. Seldom do life and health choices leaning towards the side of caution turn out poorly, whether that’s avoiding excess sugar, physical inactivity, excess alcohol, or lead. Something like lead in game meat is one of the easiest to avoid, as GMXs and CEBs sure shoot better than artificial sweeteners taste.
For some reason, these opinions make some folks feel threatened and personally attacked.
Some people are just too full of themselves and ignorant to accept the fact that their choices and opinions are wrong. They get defensive and feel as though they're being attacked simply because they cannot accept or even consider that they might be wrong.
Reminds me of anti's and lieberals....you can present all the facts you'd like, but they will never listen.
As an avid hunter I have to remind myself that I am the minority. The majority of people are willing to accept hunting as long as it is deemed reasonable. I think that in the face of the evidence it was reasonable to switch to non toxic shot to protect waterfowl and raptors/scavengers. It is my belief that accepting reasonable change will promote and preserve hunting rather than take away from it. As long as the majority of non hunters feel hunters are being reasonable then the Anti hunters will be an even smaller minority. I also use non toxic bullets for the majority of my big game hunting because I have three young kids and am making their dietary choices for them.
I started doing load dev with monos about a year and a half ago, in most of the cartridges I shoot even buying expensive mono bullets is cheaper than factory would be so I figured what the Hell. I'm not giving up anything in the accuracy department and I'm not worried about expansion with the velocities I'm seeing. I can't think of a good reason not to load mono's, except for my 7mm rem mag, that thing shoots factory Nosler E-tips so well I don't bother loading for it.
Dorian Gray
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Well, it doesn't pass Rsp's Alaskan 65 but he does represent Canada fairly well, my submission for this year. I selectively framed the shot as he broke off a large chunk of his right side fighting.
Shame on you for not letting your kids have a taste of this one. He looks like he was good eating
In all seriousness though, I know you see more animals on the ground than most of us. With mono's, what weight to caliber ratio do you see working the best? I've never used them but would imagine going relatively light for caliber would be best for reliable expansion and penetration.
I have gone lead free in all my hunting ammo, except the last of the accubonds in my 6.5x55, which will do one more animal this season. It takes very little to poison certain taxa, like raptors, which can be very sensitive to ingestion.
It has been interesting to see the growing cohort of hunters now choosing lead free in recent years. You would have been anomaly 15 years ago but even this thread is showing a growing interest in lead free hunting ammo.
The literature on lead poisoning has grown in recent decades as well. Sure, you can get lead from other sources but just because my air is polluted doesn't mean I should just augment that by smoking a pack a day. Lead is toxic to wildlife and humans, it stays in carcasses and the field. In point sources like ranges I still use it, but not on game. Ranges are increasingly figuring our ways to recover lead and I doubt you would get approval for new range facilities without a lead capture/recover/mitigation plan. A shotgun range here in AB has done it twice over the years and made decent amount of money from selling the recovered lead.
It has been interesting to see the growing cohort of hunters now choosing lead free in recent years. You would have been anomaly 15 years ago but even this thread is showing a growing interest in lead free hunting ammo.
The literature on lead poisoning has grown in recent decades as well. Sure, you can get lead from other sources but just because my air is polluted doesn't mean I should just augment that by smoking a pack a day. Lead is toxic to wildlife and humans, it stays in carcasses and the field. In point sources like ranges I still use it, but not on game. Ranges are increasingly figuring our ways to recover lead and I doubt you would get approval for new range facilities without a lead capture/recover/mitigation plan. A shotgun range here in AB has done it twice over the years and made decent amount of money from selling the recovered lead.
Shame on you for not letting your kids have a taste of this one. He looks like he was good eating
In all seriousness though, I know you see more animals on the ground than most of us. With mono's, what weight to caliber ratio do you see working the best? I've never used them but would imagine going relatively light for caliber would be best for reliable expansion and penetration.
Copper bullets are going to be lighter by default. In my 7x57 I'd run out of case capacity before I hit maximum charge weight.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Anything recently from the UK might have been motivated by pre/post Brexit trade talks.
The recent push for non lead shot may very well be in a response to keep the EU food markets open. UK and especially Scotland export huge amounts of red grouse to Europe. Same as Faro Islands and to a lesser extent Iceland as well.
The EU was searching for any excuse to disrupt UK exports. Lead shot possibly in grouse was one issue.
Bigger concern is the ocean caught fish.
