Good non restricted "AR" type rifle.

AB_blaster said:
Not much point in discussing differences that make no difference. The first runs of SLR receivers had minor issues with the anodizing and the option to wait for corrected ones was given. Offering your false narrative doesn't help those who aren't up to speed on the situation, it's simply false information. If you're here for information would you not prefer that information to be factual or are you just a connoisseur of all info??
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The post I responded to asked for the differences. I answered. I’m also of the belief that as long as you can process it, the more information the better.

Had more but decided I don’t want to win internet points today.
 
DILLIGAF said:
Fooling myself because I bought a MVs?..... LMFAO
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No you're fooling yourself if you've made looks/aesthetics a priority of function when selecting a firearm.

alberta tactical rifle said:
Sounding more like a lefty with every post. "If you don't see it my way, you are wrong" sort of thing. We all get it, you are 1000% a loyal SLR fan and in your opinion there is nothing else, especially if made in Canada.
Never said anyone was wrong, just pointing out that push pins and areduced cut angle mag well have absolutely no positive gains in the performance or reliability departments. They are 100% aesthetic preferences which from a logical point of view are retarded.
The 1st batch of SLR receivers had ano issues, it happens people and can happen to anyone. How a company deals with hiccups like this is what is important.
They ran into delays, as we did on our first run. It happens. Learn from the mistakes and carry on. OK?
Agreed
The advantage that billet has is that you can be more creative and offer options that forgings simply don't have. Like ambi bolt release which I think is vastly superior to any clamp on or bolt on abortion that can be added after the fact. It is simple, faster and most people like it. Things like captured detents and springs, custom fire control markings and serial numbers could be done with forgings for sure, but for some reason no-one offers this. IF Canada had a larger sales market or IF any Canadian manufacturer could sell their AR like guns in the USA it would be worth the cost of getting custom forgings made, but the fact is we don't, so ALL of the small manufacturers in Canada are pretty much forced to either make their parts from billet or purchase forgings from 1 of the few manufacturers who actually do the forgings. This then makes the lowers restricted in 99.9% of cases. SO there IS a benefit to billets whether you like it or not. Billets allow small Canadian makers to offer stuff like the MH, MV, MS, SLR etc.
I LIKE side charge as all of my guns have big scopes and the side charge is easier to manipulate with a large optic on it AND you don't get the puff of exhaust gasses in the face with every shot like you do with a rear charge handle. Most folk here can't have suppressors, but for those who can side charge as we designed it has a SIGNIFICANT advantage in this respect. This was my complaint with the ASA system, the blast of hot gas in the face with every shot.
The reality of Canadian makers having to use billet over forgings is a product of cost to produce for the tiny market that is Canada, not because it has any manufacturing or performance benefits. As you know billet costs more to manufacture as there's more machine time to remove what isn't the gun. The use if forgings and their inherent restricted status is entirely related to the forgings be those of AR variety which is restricted by name, not restricted by the manufacturing process.

Side chargers are a personal choice and have no benefit to performance or reliability. Your argument for suppressors is a moot one in this country, and in the USA there are better cans out there that do not generate huge amounts of back pressure which means you don't need gimmicky side chargers, however I digress as this is slightly off topic which was "what is a good non res AR type of rifle". Seeing as the MV and MH are side chargers and have ambi bolt release that makes them even less like an AR than an SLR or Stag 10. The MS
To each their own is what it boils down to.
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Right, to each their own, but the facts remain that the SLR and STAG 10 are far more AR like than the MV or MH, and the MS is yet to be available. Also in the red
jiffx2781 said:
AB's contaminating this thread as well I see....
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And your post was contributing what exactly??
 
I have never put anyone on the ignor list just because I have never felt the need to censor someone's opinion from the threads I read, but AB just cant seem to accept that others value different things. Instead he has to tell everyone who doesn't see things as he does that they are stupid. Guy literally fits the discription of "troll".

He cant add anything constructive with out bashing something else that and is clearly not unbiased as he fails to give merit to anything other than the platform which he has chosen to put on a pedistal and has zero flaws or manufacturer short comings.

Man I am so close to using the ignore feature...
 
AB_blaster said:
No you're fooling yourself if you've made looks/aesthetics a priority of function when selecting a firearm.?
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jiffx2781 said:
He is currently the ONLY one on my ignore list. Problem is people keep quoting him so I still have to wade through some of his drivel :bangHead::bangHead:
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Well Ill stop :)
 
I'd go for the CSA VZ-58 Sporter or the Mini 14 from Ruger if I was just looking for an NR 556 rifle. Both proven, highly regarded choices and both are within most budgets.
 
onetwentyish said:
I have never put anyone on the ignor list just because I have never felt the need to censor someone's opinion from the threads I read, but AB just cant seem to accept that others value different things. Instead he has to tell everyone who doesn't see things as he does that they are stupid. Guy literally fits the discription of "troll".

He cant add anything constructive with out bashing something else that and is clearly not unbiased as he fails to give merit to anything other than the platform which he has chosen to put on a pedistal and has zero flaws or manufacturer short comings.

Man I am so close to using the ignore feature...
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I don't have to accept what others value, but I have a problem with people who try to validate a personal opinion about options/features that provide no tangible benefit to the operation of the firearm. That is the same as arguing that blue is better than red, or vanilla is better than chocolate. All entirely personal opinion and all of which I could care less about. Select what you want for whatever feature you want, just refrain from trying to validate those choices without proof of merit.

Kosmonument said:
I'd go for the CSA VZ-58 Sporter or the Mini 14 from Ruger if I was just looking for an NR 556 rifle. Both proven, highly regarded choices and both are within most budgets.
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Well the 58 is based on a proven service rifle but sucks for mounting optics. The mini is a poor shooter that is expensive to support and has nearly zero modularity to it.
 
AB_blaster said:
I don't have to accept what others value, but I have a problem with people who try to validate a personal opinion about options/features that provide no tangible benefit to the operation of the firearm. That is the same as arguing that blue is better than red, or vanilla is better than chocolate. All entirely personal opinion and all of which I could care less about. Select what you want for whatever feature you want, just refrain from trying to validate those choices without proof of merit.
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A poor example, lot of studies on colours and how they make others feel and act in certain situations. And chocolate always wins.

Why can’t you accept that your “facts” don’t matter to some people. I’m a very logical person but at the end of the day I want an NR AR15 because of the way it looks. I want an NR M4 truth be told but I can’t have that lol, so the Modern Sporter with a NR Barrel is the closest I get, it’s closer then an SLR based on looks. Not even you can argue that.
 
AB_blaster said:
Billet receivers make zero difference in any aspect. They are slightly more durable but not enough to warrant their necessity. Ambi bolt release is a whatever "feature". In my opinion it's pointless window dressing, especially or those doing precision work where speed isn't the name of the game. Timney triggers are ok but not amazing. Changing a trigger is easy to do at a later date, if you don't like/want the Timney you're still paying for it.



Again, match parts are not all they're cracked up to be, especially for those who aren't going to feed it with match ammo. If you're not tailoring your gear to the intended role then you're simply chasing a shiny object. Be realistic with what you expect the rifle(that is the entire setup) to do and go from there. Building an all Match grade rifle for a plinker or hunting gun is plain stupid. A lot of wasted dollars that would be better served on ammo, training, or a better optic.

Again, billet receivers are neither here nor there, no difference in performance at the end of the day. Nowhere did I say the MH won't work with pistol mags.



Significantly less and it doesn't take proprietary parts, like bolt carriers.



Billet makes no difference.



Side charge handle is another whatever "feature" and contributes to the proprietary parts required for the rifle. Ambi bolt release is in the same boat. The Stag is assembled by professionals as well, from a company that produces an infinitely greater number of rifles than ATRS and has been doing so for a lot longer(on the semi auto side).
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Billet? We were talking about cost so billet receivers is one of the reasons the ATRS product costs more. I never said it was better from a performance point of view and I agree that other than making the receiver a little stiffer which could potentially increase accuracy slightly and that it makes it easier to have ambi controls there really isn't a performance gain even though some customers value those features. I love the ambi bolt release, it's nice when I'm sitting at a bench and I get the rifle lined up on target with a loaded magazine inserted and the bolt locked back and I can drop the bolt using my trigger finger then move to the trigger in one simple motion without taking my eye out from behind the scope. Could I live without it? Sure.

For me and especially on this rifle match parts are better. I mostly bought this rifle for precision shooting and as a challenge to myself to be better shooting a semi auto accurately. I only feed my rifle handloads so match parts work well for me and my intended use. The MH was never advertised as a plinker or surplus eater so to me it isn't a negative that it's a little finicky.
The problems many had with their MH were because of exactly what I value in the rifle. Many bought this rifle thinking they were buying an expensive AR-10 for plinking and bought it thinking it was going to shoot surplus and soft point hunting ammo even though the manufacturer posted right on their site that it was picky with ammo.

The MH does not take a proprietary bolt carrier, it takes a modified bolt carrier which is an easy modification for any gunsmith or even a skilled do it yourselfer and any carrier can be used. And again, the MH was never advertised as being milspec or that it was going to be our latest lego toy to customize and mess with. It comes decked out with the customers choice of options so I doubt there was much consideration for further major mods when they were designing it.

Again, you're right, ambi stuff and billet makes no difference to performance but some people like those options and even though the groups on paper won't show it those features are a performance improvement for the user if it makes it easier to use or if they are left handed or something. Even if it doesn't improve downrange performance it can still be an improvement to the rifle ergonomics which is worth something to some.

Don't worry ABblaster, you're not going on my ignore list. I don't find your stubbornness offensive and I like to debate which is exactly what I look forward to doing in the forums. Some days I learn something and other days I get to be the teacher. It's how we share knowledge and experience. The biggest challenge is figuring out who to learn from.
 
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Of the three AR 10 sporting rifles currently available, only two are worth looking at.
The Stag does it for me because I can put what I want on it, myself.
I’m sure if you were to call Arms East and have a gun assembled for you, with a real match grade barrel,Carbon fiber wrapped barrel etc, Timney,Geiselle trigger ,JP silent captured buffer etc.
You’d be in MH range.
So the biggest benefit of the Stag, for me, is that I can build it the way I want and do it cheaper.

If ATRS had released a more modular set, I would have jumped on that first,
And not because it’s Canadian made, but because I know ATRS is gonna make a quality set.
 
I'd honestly side with AB blaster on this one.... The SLR and MS are pretty damn close to an AR as far as NR AR alternatives go....

A Used MR1 is also a great alternative if ur mostly after a more hunting configured rifle. Would I pay the $1800-$2300 price for a new one? Absolutely NOT, but I've seen used ones come up for like $1100 and for that price they are a great option IMO.
 
AB_blaster said:
I don't have to accept what others value, but I have a problem with people who try to validate a personal opinion about options/features that provide no tangible benefit to the operation of the firearm. That is the same as arguing that blue is better than red, or vanilla is better than chocolate. All entirely personal opinion and all of which I could care less about. Select what you want for whatever feature you want, just refrain from trying to validate those choices without proof of merit
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You're wrong on this one. Kratos post was responding to a question about the differences and he answered it. You assumed that Kratos was saying something negative about the differences but he did not. Your mistake.
 
Interesting viewpoints. Back on topic. Semi-automatic Non Restricted Black Rifle options that I am aware of:

5.56mm NATO

<$1k
WK180-C
MDI SLR Stripped Upper-Lower Receiver Set
ATRS Modern Sporter Stripped Upper-Lower Receiver Set
Norinco T97 (Bullpup)

$1k-$1.5k
Keltec SU-16
CSA/ Kodiak Vz-58 Pattern Rifles

$1.5k-$2k
AR180 (only available used)
Benelli MR1
Keltec RDB (Bullpup)

$2k-$2.5k
FAMAE SG 542
HK SL8
Tavor TAR-21/X95 (Bullpup)

$2.5k-$3k
Robinson Arms XCR-L
FN FS2000 (only available used; Bullpup)

>$3k
Bushmaster ACR
B&T APC223
Swiss Arms SG 550
ATRS Modern Varmint
Valmet M76 (only available used)
Norinco Type 88 (only available used; Bullpup)

7.62mm NATO

<$1k
Norinco M305
Stag 10 Stripped Upper-Lower Receiver Set
BCL Stripped Upper-Lower Receiver Set

$1.5k-$2k
BCL 102
Stag 10 Complete Rifle
FN FNAR

$2k-$2.5k
FAMAE SG540
Keltec RFB (Bullpup)

$2.5k-$3k
Robinson Arms XCR-M
M14 Derivatives (US made)

>$3k
ATRS Modern Hunter
M14 Derivatives (US made)
Valmet M78 (only available used)

7.62x39mm

<$1k
Norinco Type 81

$1.5k-$2k
M10x

$2.5k-$3k
Robinson Arms XCR-L

>$3k
Valmet M76 (only available used)

.50 BMG

$5k-$10k
Serbu

>$10k
GM6 Lynx

Note: I've left out surplus rifles (eg. SKS) and oddball rifles (eg. SL7) / variations/ calibers from the above list and probably forgot a few current ones too. Used approximate retail price for categorization. If I am off by a lot, LMK and will update.

My recommendation: Pick your caliber, maximum budget, try as many as you can and then get the one that tickles you the hardest. I don't place much stock in manufacturer claims - most of it is drivel to up-sell you on something you think you need. See what fits you and one you will enjoy shooting and don't forget to factor in the cost of optic, ammo & training. My first rifle was a used XCR-L that I shot the snot out of and it still runs like a champ. If I were to do it again, I would just have gotten a used Swiss Arms as my first one as the pricing on new ones is just naughty.
 
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