Gun Cart - safe muzzle direction

The front bag is OK but I don't use it that much. I use the cart to lug my shooting bag around at the non 3-gun matches. In fact, you can put two on there (one on top of the other)

There's also room under the long gun holder for a flat of ammo (or what ever else you may want to store)

The thing I really find useful is the tray built into the top of the handle. Great for cleaning / loading mags.

Lot's of pockets on the back as well.

You'll love it! Money well spent

Hell...it even comes with a crying towel :D Very useful at most IPSC matches

mechanik said:
I just ordered one. How do you find it for space for your range bag? I ended up ordering the add-on front bag for it as I have one of the newer Dillon bags (which are pretty big) and I figured it would make it easier to cart if I got the add on bag and then bungied the Dillon on top of it.
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Not horizontal

Tuco Pike said:
Yup, they would be. As such he would be shown how to put it back in his car. Muzzle Up, Muzzle down, caused a big fuss. Imagine the screams muzzle HORIZONTAL would cause.
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So this would not pass SASS/CAS rules for transporting your long guns?


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If not, how much more vertical would they need to be?
 
Interesting discussion. Hopefully you guys can come to a middle ground between the realism folks and the extreme safety crowd.

I suspect given what Storm does, he's seen far too many examples of people who simply can't be trusted no matter what precautions you take (correct me if I'm wrong however).

If the muzzles are perpendicular to the ground in SASS/CAS is the permitted?

Do they also allow slings with muzzle straight up?
 
Onagoth said:
None in my experience....and there are several of them in the states.

I take this to mean people have better things to worry about... like how the guns are handled when they are not on the cart, or whether or not they are loaded .

I could be wrong though
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And just after I thought we made nice, you take a dig. If a gun was horizontal (as in level as if laying on a table) there would be several screams of "don't be pointing that gun at me", yes even in the states. I could be wrong though, have been quite a few times. I don't think the folks at the EESA would stand for guns being pointed at everyone.

Vladivar said:
So this would not pass SASS/CAS rules for transporting your long guns?
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I highly doubt it. But, it is not the SASS rules I would be worried about. It is the spectator that could be standing behind your card with those nifty muzzles pointed at their heads. As vertical as possible is what you need.

Thorvald said:
Interesting discussion. Hopefully you guys can come to a middle ground between the realism folks and the extreme safety crowd.

I suspect given what Storm does, he's seen far too many examples of people who simply can't be trusted no matter what precautions you take (correct me if I'm wrong however).

If the muzzles are perpendicular to the ground in SASS/CAS is the permitted?

Do they also allow slings with muzzle straight up?
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To my knowledge, slings are not permitted. I could be wrong, but have never seen it.
 
All the load/unload tables I've seen or dealt with around here have muzzle pointed into the side of the berm, with no room for anyone to walk in front of them.
Rules around here are vertical at all times, when stacked, carried or what ever until they are proven unloaded at the safety table, trigger locked and encased.
 
SASS cart V2

OK, so having taken all comments into account, I have done a rebuild on the gun cart and would like some fresh opinions. I think this will satisfy the muzzle up rules and although it doesn't have quite as much storage space as the first design, it still fits all my gear.

So - comment away........

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speedjunkiesracing said:
Well done.

You might want something to hold the butt stocks in place when going over rough
ground?
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Good point - it's hard to see from the pics but the stocks rest into a lip at the front of the base. I tried it over some pretty bumpy grass and it worked fine.

Runningfool said:
Great re-design. Looks like it might be tippy though depending on what and how you load that Fat-Max toolbox.
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I thought that may be an issue but it's actually surprising how "front heavy" it is. If I put the heavy stuff at the front of the box (ammo mainly) the weight is mostly over the axle so it should be fine.
 
Vladivar said:
...I thought that may be an issue but it's actually surprising how "front heavy" it is. If I put the heavy stuff at the front of the box (ammo mainly) the weight is mostly over the axle so it should be fine.
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Cool! Glad to hear it is not likely to tip causing unloaded guns to break vertical and inadvertently cause numerous dicks to fall off! :D
 
Quigley said:
The front bag is OK but I don't use it that much. I use the cart to lug my shooting bag around at the non 3-gun matches. In fact, you can put two on there (one on top of the other)

There's also room under the long gun holder for a flat of ammo (or what ever else you may want to store)

The thing I really find useful is the tray built into the top of the handle. Great for cleaning / loading mags.

Lot's of pockets on the back as well.

You'll love it! Money well spent

Hell...it even comes with a crying towel :D Very useful at most IPSC matches
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Tried it out at the range a week ago and it worked great. No more multiple trips to haul all my crap downrange. Having a portable rifle rack when shooting at the 25 metre line was extremely handy as well. Pricey yes, but very sturdy and I'm very happy with my purchase.

The only downside is that it won't fit under the tonneau cover on my Colorado without taking the front wheel off.
 
Vladivar said:
OK, so having taken all comments into account, I have done a rebuild on the gun cart and would like some fresh opinions. I think this will satisfy the muzzle up rules and although it doesn't have quite as much storage space as the first design, it still fits all my gear.
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VERY GOOD. I like it. It should serve you a lot better like that.

stormbringer said:
I think that is a much better design and you will be happy with it. Mind you............I think it would be happier with a Mossy 590 and AR15!
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That is what the side discipline of "future cowboy" is for eh? It is a real thing, just finalizing the details. It will be under SASS "rules" and such, but will use firearms that a cowboy in the year 2100 might use, think "Firefly/Serenity".

speedjunkiesracing said:
You might want something to hold the butt stocks in place when going over rough ground?
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I concur. Even a nice thick piece of carpet would help, or a nice piece of wicking foam.

Vladivar said:
Good point - it's hard to see from the pics but the stocks rest into a lip at the front of the base. I tried it over some pretty bumpy grass and it worked fine. I thought that may be an issue but it's actually surprising how "front heavy" it is. If I put the heavy stuff at the front of the box (ammo mainly) the weight is mostly over the axle so it should be fine.
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Keeping the guns as still as possible in movement is a good thing. You have a significant investment in them. Anything you can do to minimize the rubs and scrapes. Those tool boxes are nifty. I use a couple of them right now until I finish my own cart. Almost there. Perhaps I will post a couple pics. I am building mine to hold 6 guns mainly with space for 2 extra for other type matches.
 
Most of the carts I see are muzzle down, which I'm most comfortable with. Far fewer vital organs down by your feet, in the worst case scenario of a ND.
 
Not too much interested in getting into debate but here is what I built. The cart folds at the seat area for transport. This may give you some ideas for a build. The rifle / shotgun can be positioned muzzle up or down in these holders. The holders are from Cabelas and they sell them for ATV racks. The upper holders are rubber boat stops for boat trailers from Princess Auto.

Be sure to use UV vinyl for seat and backrest, available in all colors. (I did not put the second barrel tie down on the shotgun when I took the picture. The tie downs are available at Princess auto in packs of 10).

I have built 5 of these. I now mainly use a similar one but I built it for long range matches where you can have to walk between the 600 and 1000 yard. The difference with that one is the second rifle position is modified for my spotting scope stand and also carries my golf umbrella. About the second or third day of competition you will find some way of attaching an umbrella. The seat is used all the time for spotting and scoring at long range matches and the seat is hinged to get at the 5.11 bag underneath. I made one with a stop between the seat and the backrest so the owner could carry his water cooler there.

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Don't knock SASS rules. They are well thought out.

In SASS, except when on the firing line long guns are stowed and carried muzzle up empty with the action open. Once loaded the rifle is carried to the firing position muzzle up with the hammer down on an empty chamber. Break action shotguns are carried muzzle up, open, with chambers empty. All shotguns are loaded on the firing line, usually on the clock.

Because long guns are carried muzzle up to avoid sweeping anyone, it is natural to be able to lift them muzzle up from the cart and replace them muzzle up 0in the cart without sweeping anyone with the muzzle. That would not be the case if they are carried muzzle down. Also note that long guns are transported in the cart with the action open. Failure to comply with the rules around the handling of firearms both on and off the firing line leads to penalty.

CAS also takes a hard line on the 170 degree down range rule for all shooters including those who use the cross draw system. The shooter using a cross draw system must turn his body when drawing from the holster and when reholstering so that the 170 degree rule is complied with. Failure to do so results in penalties up to and including match disqualification.

A fact is, many shooters avoid shooting Cowboy Action that is governed according to SASS rules because they dislike being subjected to the discipline regarding firearms safety. Personally, I believe that CAS rules provide a very safe environment for both shooters and spectators.

There are similar but varying procedures for Wild Bunch matches.



Onagoth said:
It is interesting to see CAS take such a hard line on gun carts when they allow cross draw holsters :eek:

Apparently:

muzzle toward the ground = not allowed
muzzle pointed uprange = just fine.
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