Halving A Propane Tank - Go Big or Go Home

I tried several different configurations to use a valve on the big pot and always came back to using a big, 1 piece, stainless steel ladle. The problems I had were minor on their own but there were many minor problems and the ladle was less messing around. I found making a small work bench the same height as the pot for holding my ingot molds was better solution for me - faster and less to go wrong, less manipulation required, and fewer hazards.
- the pipe/valve freezes at startup or if you leave for 2 minutes
- the valve leaks and the leakage freezes
- if you run out of propane and need to change bottles the pipe freezes again
- manipulating the ingot mold under the spigot is a pia and easy to spill.
- Can't hold / reposition the mold and the turn the valve at the same time unless there are 2 people or you are using very small ingot mold.
-
 
bertn said:
I'm not very surprised and was expecting this.

Try to get your hands on an old style brass gas valve.
Not a ball valve one but the type with a conical brass insert held in the housing with spring tension.
Don't know if you can still buy them new here but they are still used in older homes,
if you know a plumber or someone who does water heater installs he could probably get you one from a reno job or something.

Keep it as close to the tank as possible. My valve starts about an inch from the pot/tank and if I had to do it over I would shorten this distance as much as possible.
It does freeze up if there is too much time in between pouring into ingots, but hitting it with a touch for a few seconds solves that issue.

I found this picture online. I'll take a pic of my valve soon and post it here.
30ea81d383f68e00502d71cfa4baf477.jpg
Click to expand...

The cone valves are better but a hose spear wouldn't work to connect more piping downstream of the valve. Needs an NPT connection on both ends
 
jethunter said:
I tried several different configurations to use a valve on the big pot and always came back to using a big, 1 piece, stainless steel ladle. The problems I had were minor on their own but there were many minor problems and the ladle was less messing around. I found making a small work bench the same height as the pot for holding my ingot molds was better solution for me - faster and less to go wrong, less manipulation required, and fewer hazards.
- the pipe/valve freezes at startup or if you leave for 2 minutes
- the valve leaks and the leakage freezes
- if you run out of propane and need to change bottles the pipe freezes again
- manipulating the ingot mold under the spigot is a pia and easy to spill.
- Can't hold / reposition the mold and the turn the valve at the same time unless there are 2 people or you are using very small ingot mold.
-
Click to expand...

I don't agree in most of these arguments and when processing a large batch nothing beats a good bottom pour.

Make sure you have some sort of stand to put your ingot mold on and then you have both hands available.

I use a cast iron cornbread pan that makes 8 pie shaped ingots at a time. Gets a bit heavy when full of lead but goes pretty fast.

Mine runs on natural gas off of the bbq line so I won't run out of gas lol.
 
OK here is a picture of the valve on my pot.

LXMEU2A.jpg


Edit. Crap..picture is BIG... sorry..
Don't know how to resize on my phone..]
 
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bertn said:
I don't agree in most of these arguments and when processing a large batch nothing beats a good bottom pour.

Make sure you have some sort of stand to put your ingot mold on and then you have both hands available.

I use a cast iron cornbread pan that makes 8 pie shaped ingots at a time. Gets a bit heavy when full of lead but goes pretty fast.

Mine runs on natural gas off of the bbq line so I won't run out of gas lol.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with anything you said either so I guess we're even.

I make ingots in 600 lb batches, about one every 50-60 days. I started with a bottom pour for the first 6 months then tried a ladle and I'd never go back. My ingot mold trays are 12x2.5 lb. Moving each tray 12 times is a pia as the tray gets fuller with molten lead that likes to splash around. Using a ladle was faster, neater, and safer. YMMV
 
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I couldn't resist.... so fired it up :)
Put on the fire at 9 pm and was done pouring at 11pm.

Poured 263 lbs of lead into ingots (116 ingots so on average 2.27 lbs each)
I used only 2 cubic meter natural gas at about $0.25 per cubic meter :dancingbanana:

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jethunter said:
I make ingots in 600 lb batches, about one every 50-60 days. I started with a bottom pour for the first 6 months then tried a ladle and I'd never go back. My ingot mold trays are 12x2.5 lb. Moving each tray 12 times is a pia as the tray gets fuller with molten lead that likes to splash around. Using a ladle was faster, neater, and safer. YMMV
Click to expand...

Wow that is a lot of lead!! Sounds like a hobby casting business :)
300lb per month that's is the equivalent of almost 17k 124gr bullets each month, crazy lol.

Ok, I am impressed and will take your experience as fact. I never tried the ladling thing since I assumed the bottom pour yields cleaner lead.
 
bertn said:
Wow that is a lot of lead!! Sounds like a hobby casting business :)
300lb per month that's is the equivalent of almost 17k 124gr bullets each month, crazy lol.

Ok, I am impressed and will take your experience as fact. I never tried the ladling thing since I assumed the bottom pour yields cleaner lead.
Click to expand...

Many of the bullets are heavier so less than 17K/month usually.

If you only have one mold tray, how long do you have to wait for it to cool between fillings?
 
jethunter said:
If you only have one mold tray, how long do you have to wait for it to cool between fillings?
Click to expand...

It goes super fast.

I move the filled cast iron cornbread pan over to the plywood on the ground and once the lead is solidified (about 10 seconds or so later) at the top i use the garden hose to pour some water over it. A few seconds (and a bunch of steam) later i can dump the lead pies out of the pan.
The pan is then still very hot so any water residue evaporates in no time so by the time it's positioned under the valve for the next pour it's completely dry again.
No tinsel fairy issues at all :)
 
bertn said:
It goes super fast.

I move the filled cast iron cornbread pan over to the plywood on the ground and once the lead is solidified (about 10 seconds or so later) at the top i use the garden hose to pour some water over it. A few seconds (and a bunch of steam) later i can dump the lead pies out of the pan.
The pan is then still very hot so any water residue evaporates in no time so by the time it's positioned under the valve for the next pour it's completely dry again.
No tinsel fairy issues at all :)
Click to expand...

The tinsel fairy stories are exaggerated. Spraying water onto even molten lead shouldn't make that happen.

My trays hold 12 x 2.5 lb ingots (30 lbs) and I'm nervous about dropping 30 lbs of molten lead on my feet. So I rotate 4 trays and I don't need to handle them at all during filling and until they're cooled off. I pre-heat the lead before it goes in the pot by placing the 30lb lead chunks beside the pot to catch residual heat from the burner. They heat up to 200-300F, and cuts melting time in the pot in half. The first 30 lb takes 20-25 minutes to heat up and melt, after that the preheated 30lb pieces are 10-15 minutes each to melt. So I can do about 120-150 lbs per hour fairly easily once I get going. leaving a couple inches of molten lead in the pot when you add new gives more efficient heat transfer and speeds up the melt.

I need to look into the natural gas.
 
jethunter said:
The tinsel fairy stories are exaggerated. Spraying water onto even molten lead shouldn't make that happen.

My trays hold 12 x 2.5 lb ingots (30 lbs) and I'm nervous about dropping 30 lbs of molten lead on my feet. So I rotate 4 trays and I don't need to handle them at all during filling and until they're cooled off. I pre-heat the lead before it goes in the pot by placing the 30lb lead chunks beside the pot to catch residual heat from the burner. They heat up to 200-300F, and cuts melting time in the pot in half. The first 30 lb takes 20-25 minutes to heat up and melt, after that the preheated 30lb pieces are 10-15 minutes each to melt. So I can do about 120-150 lbs per hour fairly easily once I get going. leaving a couple inches of molten lead in the pot when you add new gives more efficient heat transfer and speeds up the melt.

I need to look into the natural gas.
Click to expand...

The tinsel fairy does exists I can tell you lol.
At my second time scrap lead processing I had a few pretty damp pieces of lead that I
added to a pot full of molten lead and I really had to jump for cover :)

Natural gas runs so cheap, how much lead can you melt with one regular propane bottle?
It's just too bad that you are limited to the backyard if you are melting down pretty dirty wheel weights that
give off lots of nasty looking smoke..

Because of the low pressure of natural gas you have to add oxygen to the natural gas though or all you will get is a big yellow flame.
I use a blower from an old power vent water heater with a ceiling fan speed regulator.
 
bertn said:
The tinsel fairy does exists I can tell you lol.
At my second time scrap lead processing I had a few pretty damp pieces of lead that I
added to a pot full of molten lead and I really had to jump for cover :)

Natural gas runs so cheap, how much lead can you melt with one regular propane bottle?
It's just too bad that you are limited to the backyard if you are melting down pretty dirty wheel weights that
give off lots of nasty looking smoke..

Because of the low pressure of natural gas you have to add oxygen to the natural gas though or all you will get is a big yellow flame.
I use a blower from an old power vent water heater with a ceiling fan speed regulator.
Click to expand...

You get the explosive expansion from submerging trapped water into the molten lead, not from putting water onto the surface of molten lead. That's the difference.

The water that is accidentally submerged into molten lead superheats and changes phases from liquid to gas at incredible speed. At average atmospheric pressure, the expansion ratio between water in its liquid form and steam is 1:1700. This means that under ideal conditions, 1 part of liquid water expands to 1700 times the volume as steam when boiled. If this takes place BELOW the surface of molten lead the result is explosive and quite similar to gunpowder ignited in a cartridge. If it takes place on the surface of the molten lead then the expansion pressure bleeds off to atmoshphere and the effect on the lead is quite unspectacular compared to the other.

I get maybe 1300-1400 lbs of lead melt from one 20lb propane bottle. Refill is $21 so it's not super expensive but refilling bottle;es is a pain.
 
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