Handgun Hunting (positive posts only. NO #####ing!)

You know something Foxer, there are some of us - 2 is my count so far - that actually understand the points you try to raise,
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2 who're willing to talk about it. I've gotten a fair bit of email :)

Every time someone like johnn tries to dismiss the legitimate arguments with another bit of 'wisdom', more people seem to realize that maybe it's worth thinking about a little more. He's doing more to set back handgun hunting than i could if i were trying :) I appreciate the compliment tho.

I think all they need is a spanking.
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Uhhh... I don't have to do that tho, right? :)
 
I bet alot of average non hunter/gun owner Canadians don't even know that we can't hunt with handguns!
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Interesting question. Not that i'd really like them to be thinking about it at the moment, but it might be interesting to see.
 
Foxer said:
It's not complex - people would rather talk about it than do something about it. And if they DO do something about it, they'd rather do something easy than actually face the challenges.

People don't want it bad enough to take an honest look at it and do what it takes. Or more accurately, not enough do.

Sorry bud. That's just the way it is. Maybe it'll change some day, but right now that's what you're looking at.
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So you're going to help, by discouraging those that want it? :rolleyes:
 
Foxer said:
Hey - disagree and say 'i think there's a better way' then - but if you're going to disagree, have a reason better than "my imagniary friend says...." have some damn proof or at LEAST have looked into it.
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I gave a lot of reasons in the first half of the other thread. Reasons based on my *experience* with hand guns. A gave reasons based on history, where I am old enough to have seen the tail end of hand guns being a common tool around ranches, guiding outfits, with trappers etc. I posted the regulations for several of the U states etc.

But my reasons like everyone else's didn't pass the Foxer crystal ball test and you regected them agressively.

But sorry - claiming that the fact elmer keith shot an animal at 400 yards with a 41 or whatever is proof that handguns are good for hunting is NOT offering anything intelligent.
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I guess its hard to keep the aruements straight when you are argueing with everyone. I did not claim anything of the sort. Gatehouse brought this up to try and educate you about the fact that you don't need a long barreled hand gun to kill game. No one has claimed that this is good rationale to reinstate hand gun hunting.
 
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I gave a lot of reasons in the first half of the other thread. Reasons based on my *experience* with hand guns. A gave reasons based on history, where I am old enough to have seen the tail end of hand guns being a common tool around ranches, guiding outfits, with trappers etc. I posted the regulations for several of the U states etc.
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Those may all be valid reasons why a) - you believe in handgun hunting, and b) you believe that handguns are effective tools with which to hunt.

And that's fine, I certanly never said otherwise, nor did i say you shouldn't believe that.

However, what we're talking about is how to make it a reality in law in canada. And your experiences with handguns don't matter a hill of beans there. Simply because the rest of canada does not know you, nor would they likely accept your word as sufficient evidence of anything.

SO - and this is something i tried to point out to you - your experiences, and elmer's experiences, etc MAY be grounds for YOU to feel a certain way about handguns, but they are not grounds to in any way shape or form disagree with what is necessary politically today to get a law changed. And remember - that is ALL i've talked about. So your experience is absolutely irrelevent to whether or not the path to make that happen i discussed is correct or incorrect.

I mentioned the kind of evidence that WILL be relevant and necessary during the discussion as we move forward. You provided nothing along those lines. But we won't get anywhere with anecdotal evidence provided by people who are pro-hh to begin with. It doesn't fly.

But my reasons like everyone else's didn't pass the Foxer crystal ball test and you regected them agressively.
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For god's sake - if you're going to get a law passed "it works, trust me" is NOT sufficient evidence!

I guess its hard to keep the aruements straight when you are argueing with everyone. I did not claim anything of the sort. Gatehouse brought this up to try and educate you about the fact that you don't need a long barreled hand gun to kill game.
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Gatehouse did not bring it up. Someone else did. And i wasn't ascribing it to you, i was pointing it out as an example that the 'evidence' offered in the thread is useless.

No one has claimed that this is good rationale to reinstate hand gun hunting.
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Go back and re-read it. They most certainly did. The original post mentioning it said that we shouldn't even have to discuss how effective handguns are because elmer keith shot an elk at 200 yards (this was later corrected to be 400 yards) with a pistol.

I simply pointed out that we CANNOT go to the ministry and say 'we should allow handgun hunting because someone once shot an elk at 400 yards, thereby demonstrating they have plenty of power'. Most hunters would be appalled at the idea of shooting at animals at 400 yards with a pistol - they won't get past that, never mind the fact that it hardly proves it's an adequate hunting cartridge just because someone did it once. Consistency is what we need to prove. The average hunter will NOT be able to kill elk at 200 OR 400 yards with a handgun with consistency.

And that should be a no-brainer, but you guys get so focused on your version of the argument you can't even listen to what others are saying. I even said "what we need is something more like "we talked to the officials in several handgun hunting areas and they claim there appears to be no additional wounded animals and no increased incidents of accidents with handguns'. THAT is real and relevant today. But no... we got stuck on people trying to argue that EK shooting out to 400 yards IS valid evidence. Well it ISN'T.

So again - you can offer a logical argument as to a different method of approaching the gov't that would be better. But - don't tell me i'm wrong when you have no ideas on how to go about it that are based on any kind of meaningful plan.
 
So you're going to help, by discouraging those that want it?
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No, I have been discouraged by those who claim they want it, so I'm not much motivated to help. That' would be entirely different. All i said there was the truth. That is the way it is. Beat that, then talk to me.
 
If you're not much motivated to help, why are you even IN this discussion?
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Well, initially i offered one or two posts to answer people's questions or comments who seemed genuinely interested. Why not? Harmless enough. I took months to look into this, no harm in sharing a little of what i found out.

Then i got dragged back in by a couple of 'people' who decided to make some comments that weren't particularly accurate or fair about the other thread.

Now - i'm responding to you.

I'm assuming i won't need to get a white board out to explain it further.

And just so you know .. as crazy as it sounds, i'll probably continue to post on a wide variety of threads on this board without clearing it with you personally. Hope you're not too offended.
 
I started shooting and was introduced to Grouse hunting about 1957, age 10 and then big game hunting at 14. At 20 I started handgun shooting which added a whole new chapter to my enjoyment of the shooting sports, and just recently, got involved in a couple of related websites, this being one. I've always enjoyed the various shooting sports and related activities, including much of the site interaction. There are numerous aspects that have enhanced my interest and enjoyment such as the exchange of info on site and going out shooting with some of the local members of CGN. Definately on the + side. :) There are, however, several aspects affecting the minus side of my enjoyment. Things like C 68, the lack of follow through on the election promise to abolish the long gun registry are a couple of 'biggies'. These items are closely followed by foxer and his MO of arrogant self-righteous 'Foxerization' in thread discussions.:( I guess to regain the enjoyable aspects of reloading, shooting and hunting once more, I have to endeavor to minimize or eliminate some of the minus factors. To that end, as a start, I commit not to respond to foxer or his 'Foxerizations'. Should I renege, while I'm not willing to submit to a spanking by gunz4grls or anyone, may I be struck by a bolt of lightning!
Now, time to crank out a few reloads, 500 S&W 440gr, and then head out to the range for some testing. I feel better already!:D
 
Johnn- I've always enjoyed your posts, lookign forward to reading some more of them- After you've hit the range! Let us know how your hand cannon works for you, and if you feel it suitabel to take a moose out...:)
 
Gatehouse said:
Johnn- I've always enjoyed your posts, lookign forward to reading some more of them- After you've hit the range! Let us know how your hand cannon works for you, and if you feel it suitabel to take a moose out...:)
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Hey Gate;
I got the shells loaded but I'll wait 'till the rain lets up before I get into load & accuracy testing. I do have a scan of the load and target results from some testing I did with the Hornady 350gr HP, a 'modified' Speer 325gr HP. Also, I have some similar test results using a cast 380gr SW made by M.T. Chambers. If you're interested and want to see them, PM me your e-mail address and I'll send the scans to you.
I have yet to learn how to post pic's and/or scans, any day now.:rolleyes: I'm not positive yet but if/when my proposed Moose trip takes place, I'm looking at using a 350gr HP, but then I'd still want to see how the 400gr Sierra pan's out first. One of the two most likely.
If I can do my part, I have no doubt my .500 S&W will be up to the task.:) I have an article "To Africa With A .500 S&W" by Mark Hampton of The American Handgunner. The title says it all. The author and his partner used it on Cape Buffalo & Elephant, using a cast 440gr GC, in the range of 1600 f/sec, which is pretty HOT. The range on the Buffalo was 50 yds and 40 yds on the Elephant and Mark is apparently, quite an accomplished handgunner. Although a short article, it's pretty good. If you want, I could scan and send that as well.
 
Here's an Alaskan Brownie...taken with a 500 Smith :cool:
I'd say it might work for Moose ;)

Crappy Picture Links............:mad:
 
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Johnn

Got your email!

I wasn't surprsed to see that the guy took a cape buffalo wiht one handgun shot, but it surprised me to see that he also took and elephant wiht 2!!:runaway:
 
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