Handgun Hunting Support

[SIGP2101]

It is encouraging to se that 88% is in support of this, but it is discouraging to now that only 303 (so far) members of this board actually voted in favor of HGH. Makes me wonder would this be valuable statistics and would it be a valid argument anywhere.

It would be interesting to see results of similar poll run only for Ontario??? or province by province.

 

[joe-nwt]

It would be interesting to see results of similar poll run only for Ontario??? or province by province.

Here's your chance at poll wizardry....

 

[guess_kto]

The most popular use of the handgun in the countries where it can be used for hunting is finishing up the wounded game...

 

[gitrdun]

Don't let the polls here fool you into thinking that allowing handgun hunting is the wish of everyone in the country. Just for the fun of it, I asked 4 people that I know, all of which are NOT members of this board. I asked for a simple yes or no. Only one out of four complied, the answer was "no". The other three were all "no ####ing way". One is a rancher/hunter, a self employed man who also happens teach firearm safety, a vetenerian, a oilfield operator. Each and every one of these people are hunters.

When I was a kid, I lived by the rule that kids should be seen and not heard. My cousins and I would play outside while the adults visited inside (we had no TV nor video games). In order to avoid the 8:00pm curfew, we kept our distances and made sure to not give the adults just cause to send us to bed. Most nights, we played hide and seek till past 11:00pm. We were smart enough to know what was best for us and how to take best advantage of it. Please let this story be a lesson.

Pushing your handgun hunting fetishes into the opposition's faces will only cause to stir the #### and make a big stink. And maybe even light up a fire under the real anti's asses to further tighten the gun ownership laws that we currently have to deal with.

Oh....and your poster boy is a real tough guy, especially posing in front of a herd of poster bisons.

Is really this guy at his daytime job...see the resemblence in the mid-section.

 

[Gatehouse]

Don't let the polls here fool you into thinking that allowing handgun hunting is the wish of everyone in the country. Just for the fun of it, I asked 4 people that I know, all of which are NOT members of this board. I asked for a simple yes or no. Only one out of four complied, the answer was "no". The other three were all "no f**king way". One is a rancher/hunter, a self employed man who also happens teach firearm safety, a vetenerian, a oilfield operator. Each and every one of these people are hunters.

When I was a kid, I lived by the rule that kids should be seen and not heard. My cousins and I would play outside while the adults visited inside (we had no TV nor video games). In order to avoid the 8:00pm curfew, we kept our distances and made sure to not give the adults just cause to send us to bed. Most nights, we played hide and seek till past 11:00pm. We were smart enough to know what was best for us and how to take best advantage of it. Please let this story be a lesson.

Pushing your handgun hunting fetishes into the opposition's faces will only cause to stir the s**t and make a big stink. And maybe even light up a fire under the real anti's asses to further tighten the gun ownership laws that we currently have to deal with.

Oh....and your poster boy is a real tough guy, especially posing in front of a herd of poster bisons.

Is really this guy at his daytime job...see the resemblence in the mid-section.

Isn't that nice. You asked 4 peopel and you have a definitve answer.

Maybe you should ask the BC Wildlife Federation, reprsenting 30 000 hunters in BC what they think...

Here, I will save you some time- They are IN FAVOUR of handgun hunting.

Your way of playing politics is a losers way. Hiding and hoping nobody will notice is what has caused such a mess for gun owners in this country.

 

[BCWILL]

Please let this story be a lesson.

Git,
I fully appreciate what your getting at and can appreciate the "Don't rock the boat" approach.
However I have Hunted and or been involved with Hunting & the Shooting sports in BC for over 20 years. During this time I have seen Hunting and it's "Culture" degrade from an accepted pasttime & culture into almost a Shameful thing

Folks used to be Proud that they Hunted and now they are almost Frowned upon for thier lifestyles, we are encouraged to not "Display" our Trophies( in other words hide them from the public eye etc.) It's really gotten kinda silly.

I for one feel it's about time Hunters, Trappers and the like...stand up for what we do and stop Lurking in the shadows like we are doing something wrong. Stand Up for what we do instead of "hiding" it.....the only way to help Change Public misconceptions is to expose them to the positives of it.

We should feel Pride in what we do and not allow ourselves to get pushed further "out of the Public eye"

 

[Foxer]

Maybe you should ask the BC Wildlife Federation, reprsenting 30 000 hunters in BC what they think...

Actually i spoke to one of the 'high ups' there. I won't 'out' him, but he's against handgun hunting.

I think they largely supported it because of the idea of supporting handgunners. I don't think any of the non-supporters wanted to make a fuss - it's got so many road blocks that they won't worry about it right now until the feds decide to actually allow it. Then there'll be a discussion.

But no - the BCWF is not 100 percent behind it at all. Any more than the 'cheif of police' stuff we hear about the registry actually represents all police.

There's still lots of questions and concerns. I talked to a bunch of people about this a short time ago looking at what kind of grass roots action would be necessary to support the issue.

 

[imsharkbait]

Is really this guy at his daytime job...see the resemblence in the mid-section.

I don’t get it I don’t see a orange shirt or a furry belly hanging out.

 

[Gatehouse]

Actually i spoke to one of the 'high ups' there. I won't 'out' him, but he's against handgun hunting.

I think they largely supported it because of the idea of supporting handgunners. I don't think any of the non-supporters wanted to make a fuss - it's got so many road blocks that they won't worry about it right now until the feds decide to actually allow it. Then there'll be a discussion.

But no - the BCWF is not 100 percent behind it at all. Any more than the 'cheif of police' stuff we hear about the registry actually represents all police.

There's still lots of questions and concerns. I talked to a bunch of people about this a short time ago looking at what kind of grass roots action would be necessary to support the issue.

Foxer

Regardless of what the person said, I, along wiht almost all of the other delegates at the last convention voted IN FAVOUR of the resolution in favour of handgun hunting.

The resolution was not "do you support handgun hutning" it was "ask the ministry to remove the *NO HANDGUN* regulation in the hutning regs."

I'd say at least 85% of the delegates where in favour of this.

The delegates are sent by thier clubs to represent them, and vote according ot how the club wishes. It would seem that if there was really great resevations regarding handgun hutning in BC, the vote woudl be an overwhelming NO.

The BCWF represents many peopel, and wihtout a doubt not every member is in favour of handguns, and it is certianly not a huge priority, but the fact remains the members directed the BCWF to pursue eliminating the provincial restriction regarding handgun hunting.

That is where it HAS to start, anyway. make provinces allow it- and tell the feds we want to do it..apply for an ATT or ATC for hutning and see what happens.

 

[gitrdun]

I for one feel it's about time Hunters, Trappers and the like...stand up for what we do and stop Lurking in the shadows like we are doing something wrong. Stand Up for what we do instead of "hiding" it.....the only way to help Change Public misconceptions is to expose them to the positives of it.

We should feel Pride in what we do and not allow ourselves to get pushed further "out of the Public eye"

BCWILL: I surely think that the discussions that we have had on the topic so far, or on a bigger scale "the existence of this website" would NOT qualify as lurking or hiding. Can you think of a better way to go public, I mean just look at how fast and how far the Grizzly Poaching story has gone to date. Like it or not - positive or negative, put it up here and brother believe me, it's out there. I am an avid hunter and enjoy my firearms, I don't flaunt it in the face of those that are either not interested or are against it, not because I have something to hide, but because I get a lot more pleasure out of my sport without encountering opposition or flack every time I fire a round, harvest some game, or otherwise.

Here's another analogy that a friend passed on to me today. A frog placed in water will let you boil him without complaint if you turn the heat up 1/2 a degree at a time. Crank it up too fast, and he'll jump out.

Here's another thaught that I had. Sometime back, someone had posted a story that concerned some poachers in NB and Quebec. I suggested that we should join forces and submit a petition to the prosecuting attorney asking the court system to throw the book at these so and so's and not let them get away with a mere slap on the wrist. Just go and look at the amount of interest that it generated...nothing, certainly not compared to this thread. If people are not willing to take action and provide some form of protection for the wildlife which is inherently a part of the sport, then why even bother with handguns? Hell, the poachers will take care of them with the Fords and the Chevys. That is one sad state of affairs.

 

[joe-nwt]

I don't flaunt it in the face of those that are either not interested or are against it, not because I have something to hide, but because I get a lot more pleasure out of my sport without encountering opposition or flack

I dunno, it seems to have worked for the ###s......

 

[Gatehouse]

Here's another thaught that I had. Sometime back, someone had posted a story that concerned some poachers in NB and Quebec. I suggested that we should join forces and submit a petition to the prosecuting attorney asking the court system to throw the book at these so and so's and not let them get away with a mere slap on the wrist. Just go and look at the amount of interest that it generated...nothing, certainly not compared to this thread. If people are not willing to take action and provide some form of protection for the wildlife which is inherently a part of the sport, then why even bother with handguns? Hell, the poachers will take care of them with the Fords and the Chevys. That is one sad state of affairs.

Perhaps it's because writing petitions to officers of the court it's not a really effective suggestion?

Crown counsel and judges can't be swayed by outside influences, or noone woudl get afair trial.

 

[Foxer]

Regardless of what the person said, I, along wiht almost all of the other delegates at the last convention voted IN FAVOUR of the resolution in favour of handgun hunting.

Sure. But lets be real - did your club have a formal canvas of the membership? In fact, did the majority of your members even know the question was coming up? Don't get me wrong, i believe that the delegates voted in the best interests of the members, but really: how many of those 30,000 members even knew a meeting was coming up.

The resolution was not "do you support handgun hutning" it was "ask the ministry to remove the *NO HANDGUN* regulation in the hutning regs."

I'd say at least 85% of the delegates where in favour of this

And good on 'em, and darn the ones who said no. We should be able to debate the subject and have honest discussion, not have the conversation removed form the table due to laws essentially forbidding even thinking about it.

But one can't take that as a support for handgun hunting - or for that matter the conditions under which those who might support it would support it.

It would seem that if there was really great resevations regarding handgun hutning in BC, the vote woudl be an overwhelming NO.

That's not entirely true. The delegates dont' run on a 'platform' like a gov't.

The BCWF represents many peopel, and wihtout a doubt not every member is in favour of handguns, and it is certianly not a huge priority, but the fact remains the members directed the BCWF to pursue eliminating the provincial restriction regarding handgun hunting.

Well - lets put it this way. That was almost a year ago. What have they done? What letters have been written, what information supporting the initiative has been collected, what meetings discussing how to move this forward are scheduled with provincial officials? What's the timeline?

You can see where i'm going, right?

That is where it HAS to start, anyway. make provinces allow it- and tell the feds we want to do it..apply for an ATT or ATC for hutning and see what happens.

Well there is an argument for that, but to date the province has hid behind the feds. It's a bit of a catch 22.

We already have provinces where there is no handgun hunting restriction. If we're serious, we should use hunters in one of those to force the feds to issue an att. Once that's done, the provinces have no where to hide, and would have to address the issue.

 

[gitrdun]

I dunno, it seems to have worked for the ###s......

Looking for willing hunting partners...

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j93/elkfirst/###gun.jpg

Hey...I just like to throw in some humour everyonce in a while...bahahaha

 

[Gatehouse]

Sure. But lets be real - did your club have a formal canvas of the membership? In fact, did the majority of your members even know the question was coming up? Don't get me wrong, i believe that the delegates voted in the best interests of the members, but really: how many of those 30,000 members even knew a meeting was coming up.

The wayi t is supposed to work is yoru club appoints delegates, your club reviews the resolutions and decides how to vote, and the delagates go vote.

Most of the members are aware that the convention is happening, but don't participate directly.They do get the newsletter wiht the resolutions in it though

But one can't take that as a support for handgun hunting - or for that matter the conditions under which those who might support it would support it

.

I take it as a willingness to pursue the issue if the members push for it, and as support of handgun hunting form the majority of the delegates. . It certainly isn't the opposite.

That's not entirely true. The delegates dont' run on a 'platform' like a gov't

.

The delegates don't "run" at all. They vote.

If the local clubs had not been against handgun hunting, they would have most definitly directed thier delegates to vote NO.

Well - lets put it this way. That was almost a year ago. What have they done? What letters have been written, what information supporting the initiative has been collected, what meetings discussing how to move this forward are scheduled with provincial officials? What's the timeline

?

Frim the newsletter:

Last year a letter was written to the BC government about this with no response, a second letter will be written int he fall of 06. This resolution has also been put on the PHRAAC issue list for discussion but it is not a priority.

(nor should it be a priortiy in my opinion. The BCWF has got lots to do and the only way to get them really crackign on this is if the membership was really pushing for it. Someone that feels very strongly in favour of it needs to take the ball and run. However, if the BCWF is not in support of handguns, why woudl a letter have been written in the first place? )

 

[Foxer]

I take it as a willingness to pursue the issue if the members push for it, and as support of handgun hunting form the majority of the delegates. . It certainly isn't the opposite.

No, and fair enough - but again you can't put it forward as support of hunters in general. (or shooters i guess, some of the gun clubs will have shooters too.)

The delegates don't "run" at all. They vote.

Yeah - that's my point. They're not operating on a mandate from their members, as an elected official would be.

Last year a letter was written to the BC government about this with no response, a second letter will be written int he fall of 06

Yeah. Largely symbolic effort.

Now - i'm not saying they should be rabidly be pursuing it, but obviously it can't be held up as any kind of level of support.

 

[SIGP2101]

Maybe the answer lays in demography of the Canadian hunter.
My impression so far is that hunters over 50 are generally 80% for NO answer, and hunters below 40 are generally 90% of the times for YES answer to that question. Hunters in between had to be converted to either side.

 

[Foxer]

Maybe the answer lays in demography of the Canadian hunter.
My impression so far is that hunters over 50 are generally 80% for NO answer, and hunters below 40 are generally 90% of the times for YES answer to that question. Hunters in between had to be converted to either side.

I'd disagree with your precise numbers perhaps, but i think that in general terms you're right that the younger the hunter, the more likely he is to support it.

 

[Gatehouse]

Yes, Foxer, the delegates do indeed operate on a mandate from their members. The club members TELL the delegates how they want an issue voted on, and the delegates then vote. On some occasions, certian issues require more information to make an informed vote, but the handgun resolution was not one of these. It was very clear,and the delegates woudl have been voting as thier club told them to- in effect following the mandate of thier club members.

At the last convention there were about 300 people in the room, representatives from all the BCWF clubs.

Only one spoke against handgun hunting.

There was a lineup to speak in favour of it.

Writing a letter in support may have been a symbolic effort-however, the letter would have not happened at all if there was no support for handgun hunting in the membership of the BCWF.

It isn't a priority since other projects (such as conservation and allocations) are far more important than weapon choice, but that could change if the membership was to make it a priority.

 

[Foxer]

Yes, Foxer, the delegates do indeed operate on a mandate from their members. The club members TELL the delegates how they want an issue voted on, and the delegates then vote.

C'mon bud - Did your association hold any kind of 'vote' on how the delegates should respond to the agenda? What percent of your members voted if they did? Would it be fair to say that the majority of your members did not participate in any formal referendum on the subject?

At the last convention there were about 300 people in the room, representatives from all the BCWF clubs.

Only one spoke against handgun hunting.

There was a lineup to speak in favour of it.

Wow - 300 out of a hunting population of, what, about 80 or 90 thousand? And again - how many of those reps were expressing their personal views, not having officially polled the members? Oh i'm sure they talked to some, maybe felt that generally speaking there wasn't a huge problem with it - i doubt they'd vote knowing their people HATED something. But that's a far cry from a mandate.

A delegate system rarely truly reflects the will of the people. If it did - dion wouldn't be in. That's why the cpc moved away from it and went to a 'one person one vote' system.

Writing a letter in support may have been a symbolic effort-however, the letter would have not happened at all if there was no support for handgun hunting in the membership of the BCWF.

If the effort is a reflection of support, it's a fair statement to make that the support is pretty minimal.

It isn't a priority since other projects (such as conservation and allocations) are far more important than weapon choice, but that could change if the membership was to make it a priority.

Sure - if the membership made it a priority. And lets face it - as far as most hunters are concerned the debate hasn't even started yet. I doubt most even know the resolution was passed.

So .. we're back to what i said originally: if this is going to move forward, it will require the support of the hunting community. Not just a hundred of them, or even just a thousand of them, but a sizable percentage of not only the members, but of hunters in general.

And i have to wonder if that is even the most pressing path right now if one was serious about pushing it thru - the fact is even if we had 100 percent support, all that would give us is the BCWF pushing the provincial gov't for it. You'd have to convince the prov' gov't, (no easy feat) and THEN you'd have to go after the feds, which is a whole 'nuther fight.

We have provinces which allow it right now. Would the logical choice not be to use them to force the Feds to start issuing att's? Once that happens, pressuring our own province becomes much easier. Until then, the province can always hide behind the fact that there's 'no point in discussing it, the feds don't allow it anyway'.