Handgun Hunting Support
- Thread starter SIGP2101
- Start date
Umm - THAT IS the proposed stratagy at the moment
I'm proposing something different. Look - we've been running around in circles for years. half assed efforts by people that think that 'righteous indignation' alone could win the battle and patting ourselves on the back while we scream uselessly to the heavens has gotten us exactly nothing.
Now yer learnin'.
You muster support - you focus that support where it'll do the most good, and you make things happen. The rest of this rather sad back patting is pointless. The only way to make it happen is look at what you've got, look at what you need, and make a plan. But most gun owners would rather be like some here - manufacturing fake support that just doesn't exist, talking tough about their 'rights' and basically spinning their wheels. Makes 'em feel good i guess, and it's a hell of a lot easier than doing REAL work to solve the issues.
But if you'd rather spin your wheels for a few more years and get nowhere - go ahead. Pretending support exists where it doesn't is pointless. Pretending the province can do crap for you without getting the feds on board is a joke. And pretending that things will change unless we get a couple thousand guys to demand change - directly thru organized grass roots efforts co-ordinated with the major lobby orgs - is simply pissin in the wind.
But what do we get? OH look!! we had a vote! YAAAY! everyone's behind us now!!!! SURE they are!!!! We sent a letter! OOOOOOO - it's so close to victory i can taste it! Yaaay!
LOL - what a joke! Get serious or quit pretending you're doing anything but dreaming. It's a big job. You can't expect anyone to take you seriously if you don't take it seriously yourselves. Think about it.
Ok - i'll make it more simple.
You posted the bit where i commented that an organized effort to bring in handgun hunting will actually motivate the anti's rather than put them on the defensive, until we win. (once we win, different story.)
You refered to it as being 'devils advocate'.
I pointed out that in the case of what you posted, that wasn't being devils advocate, that was a very real thing. Just as every time the anti's make a major push to ban something, WE get motivated.
I then commented again that the secret here is to do it enough 'under the radar' and with enough speed that by the time they realize something is up, it's too late for them to use it to rally their own troops and turn it into a money making issue.
There's nothing there that should be confusing you - did i misunderstand what you meant by 'devils advocate' or something?
Yes Foxer in my opinion, you sir are the Devil's advocate. You are a mod. on a pro-gun board and you spew the same anti-gun rhetoric as the Sierra club. This thread is about handgun hunting, pro or con in a country where a certain segment may blast away at night with a jack-light whilst the rest hope they don't get shot by stray rifle rounds. Yet a question is posed "Handgun hunting support" how many of you would like it back? And you have tried your best to shoot down every supportive argument with your own opinions that are so obviously anti-handgun. Ergo I call you "Devil's advocate" If there was a finger puppet smiley, I'd click on it.
Really. What have i said that's anti gun exactly?
The fact that there's a bad law doesn't justify pushing for MORE bad laws, that's for sure.
Well that'd be a pretty significant lie there bud. In fact - there's not one 'problem' i proposed that i didn't also propose a 'solution' for that was quite workable.
The problem here is that some here go into a state of denial the moment a legitimate issue is raised. I said 'we don't have sufficient support. Therefore we have to build it". Others say 'no no no no we do! honest! look here's a vote that doesn't actually represent the will of the people that proves it".
There are ways to gain support. It's not a major obstacle. But it'll never happen when we have people who'd rather 'talk tough' than do the work.
In the meantime - the people you claim presumably as 'progun' have proposed absolutely nothing at all to move the idea forward. Did you notice that?
Well you can always use a mirror. That's who you're really screwing over in the end.
It's a serious business. There are solutions. They begin with being honest, not pretending the sun rises in the west or the moon is made of cheeze. Sorry if the truth upsets you. That'd be your problem. But it's not anti gun - it's anti-delusional. To date, the efforts of these people have resulted in exactly one unanswered letter to the gov't. Wow. We're almost there, eh?
All i said was get serious. That ain't anti gun. You'd do well to recognize the difference.
Several members of this board have submitted ideas about bringing it back, 600+ pages phew! I'm not going through them all again. The gist of this whole thread to me anyway is this. I for one never thought for a moment we'd ever be able to hunt with a handgun in this society that fears bang-sticks so much. It was never an issue for me, I hunt with rifles and shotgun and like it. I have friends in Havre Mt. and I can hunt antelope and deer with a 44 mag. in season on their land, so it's not a big draw for me. Until this thread that asked a question would I support a return to handgun hunting came along I'd never thought about it. You have to admit foxer you are against handgun hunting and it shows in your posts. I am not delusional, I don't expect the sun to rise in the west just as I'm purty durned sure there ain't no Z in cheese.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
You must learn not only to listen to the views of others but also to hear them and not belittle those giving them, just because their views differ from yours. To truly be part of the 'solution', you must also learn to put forth the wisdom you have rather than giving the impression you're imposing it. The opinions and methods of others are as important as yours.Foxer said:LOL - well enjoy telling yourselves whatever makes your little egos sleep better at night
You keep going that way, and we'll see if we have handgun hunting in bc in the next 3 years.
You have learned much and your opinions are wise 'Grasshopper', now you must grow.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
In my opinion we don't require a separate handgun season. I'm sure we could fit in the same timeline as rifle hunters. It's almost getting to the point of too many 'individual' seasons as is.BWANA said:
God it's like watching 5 year olds.
Let me guess - you two were the kind that when the teacher asked you something simple, but you didn't understand, you made fart noises with your armpits right?
Ok - how about this.
I think gatehouse is full of hot air on this issue. I think he likes to talk tough because it wins him 'friends' on the internet. But - maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he DOES have a good plan that will work well.
So - lets hear it. Go ahead gatehouse... seeing as you 'care' about this and are so much more knowledgeable, and remembering the province has already said they won't address it while it's still 'illegal' - lets hear your plan for bringing this into reality. I'd like to see how it's different than what i laid out.
Let me guess - you two were the kind that when the teacher asked you something simple, but you didn't understand, you made fart noises with your armpits right?
Ok - how about this.
I think gatehouse is full of hot air on this issue. I think he likes to talk tough because it wins him 'friends' on the internet. But - maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he DOES have a good plan that will work well.
So - lets hear it. Go ahead gatehouse... seeing as you 'care' about this and are so much more knowledgeable, and remembering the province has already said they won't address it while it's still 'illegal' - lets hear your plan for bringing this into reality. I'd like to see how it's different than what i laid out.
Foxer said:
Well, I guess 2 can play that game
He may believe his behaviour will win "friends" on the intraweb, but judging from this thread, this tactic isn't working.
How was that?
Yup, just you...You are the only one that could possibly have had any ideas of merit.
As I pointed out very early in this thread, I woudl suggest :
Gather evidence from states that allow handgun hunting- (You made this suggestion in post #388, after I made it earlier in the thread)
Get Provincial wildlife associations on board wiht your plans, get them to apply as much pressure as possible to thier provincial governments to unrestrict handgun hunting
Apply for an ATT in a province that didn't disallow handgun hunting, and then go through a court case...Right now we need ATT's to transport handguns, so i don't see how it could be done without adressing the ATT/specified place to shoot issue.
Foxer, I do care about this, to a certain extent- Mostly because I think it's ridiculous that handguns are so villified in this country. I certainly care enough about it to talk about it on the internet, and I care enough to offer support and write a few letters, too.
However, being a rifleman first and foremost, and a handgunner a distant third, it's not something that I care enough about to dedicate the next few years to working on. That will have to come from someone(s) who really relaly wants handgun hunting.
I'l stand behind those people, I'll give them support- I certianly wouldn't talk down to them for having the guts to try, nor woudl I stand in thier way. But I'm not the guy to spearhead a campaign like this for a number of reasons including other interests, time, energy and the fact that if I wanted to go out and hunt deer wiht a handgun, I probably just would find a way to do it, rather than waiting for a beaurocrat to give me permision.
Of course, since Foxer edited my comments above, thinking that I was discussing something illegal, I shoudl make it nice and sparkling clear that I woudl only hunt wiht a handgun in a place where it was legal to do so...
(edited - no illegal discussions.)
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It was Excellent! You've learned the basic skill of mimicry we expect out of the average primate. With careful training, we might even get you to master basic tasks.
LOL - nice try
What's amusing is you claim others 'twist words'. I simply said i wanted to see how it was different than what i said Yes, but i actually laid out what evidence we'd need. However, lets move on..
Which we already know the provinces have said they won't consider while the feds don't allow att's. So... we achieve exactly what there?
So you're FIRST step with the feds would be try to take them to court.
Considering how effective we've been with the 12.x stuff, which is premised on pretty much the same argument, what possible grounds do you think we could win that on?
And how much money do we spend on that? And how many years. It takes a long time, first we go to the provincial court, then there's the appeal, then we go to the supreme court.. you're talking close to 100 grand and there's virtually no chance we'll win it. There isn't any grounds for it, even tho there is in OUR minds.
So - what legal argument would you make? What would our case be, that hasn't already been shot down with precedent from another source?
About what i thought.
You don't actually have much of a plan, and don't really care much. Well that's fine - not everyone is going to. As i said, apathy is pretty common on the issue with most hunters here in bc when it comes to handguns.
But ...
Well we know that isn't true is it. I laid out the problems, and i also laid out solutions to each problem and what has to be done. But that didn't conform to your imagined idea of 'no rules' handgun hunting. So.. you certanly did talk down about it. And where you didn't talk down, you just pretended the real problems don't exist, but tried to pass yourself off as someone who was knowledgeable.
I've actually talked to gary m, several federal people, the provincial people, and the bcwf about this issue. I've actually spoken to several dozen hunters about how they feel about it to get a sense of what concerns are out there. But you - who don't really care, haven't really done much research into what's involved right now in bc, and haven't got a history of working with the political parties knows best, right?
Y'know - if you really don't have a plan, and you really don't intend to be part of the fight in a meaningful way, then realistically all you're doing by pissing on others because you don't like the idea of ANY rules or regulations is guaranteeing it will never happen. Sure - you think the extra 100 fps (or 60 as was mentioned in the article posted by someone else) won't make a difference, but you don't care about the perception it'll have. Sure - you'll suggest there's widespread support because of a vote without knowing if the hunting community actually supports it, and suggest a course of action that will require at LEAST tens of thousands of dollars in donations, but you don't really support it strongly yourself.
As to that last bit - i edited it out. You've been here long enough to know better than to make suggestions of or support illegal activities on this site. Really - that's over the line. Especially in light of the fact we've just had the 'grizzlie' thing go on. This is GT's site, and regardless of our argument you aught to show a little more respect than that.
