Handgun Hunting Support

[crazy_davey]

If you hunt in bear country or cougar territory (that’ll be me), you’d be a fool to set your rifle down at anything further than arms length.

After reading that, I am assuming you have never spent any time in the country that either animals you mention frequent. So where do you get your one sided opinions?

(that’ll be me)

What I am reading is that you have never actually spent time in cougar territory but will some day. Please correct mew if I am wrong.

In the country I spend time in, Grizzly bears, Black bears, Cougar, as well as many others hang around all the time. What is your vast experiance in coming close to all of the above mentioned animals. Your experiance might help your argument.

I have been pretty much face to face with a pissed of mamma grizzly bear and other game that could eat me, have you gunz4grlz? If so, please share your experiances so I can understand your opinion.

 

[Teapot]

Trying to convince Guns4Girls is wasted keyboard strokes. She is locked down.

 

[Boomer]

Apparently some people do not know what the handgun is for. If they are interested in the subject, Elmer Keith's book "Sixguns" illustrates which handguns are useful in a wilderness enviroment and why.

 

[Bishopus]

We have to try to convince ALL gun owners that every form of gun ownership and use is valid. Even those who don't understand that: "I’m not even against hand guns" and "I just don’t think they have a place in the bush." are mutually exclusive statements.

Everyone with the guts to post 'anti' sentiments on this thread, I applaud your courage, but please please please examine your politics. It's not enough to defend your tiny scrap of ground on this issue. Either you're for gun ownership and rights, or you're for restriction and reduction of those rights.

Two sides. Not a big gray area where you can own 'good' guns and look down your nose on the 'bad' gun owners, or gun owners who have guns that 'nobody needs', or gun owners who don't hunt the same way that you do. A, or B.

What's it going to be?

 

[Foxer]

We have to try to convince ALL gun owners that every form of gun ownership and use is valid.

I don't think the 'anti' argument here is about gun ownership, but rather use. And that's fair game for discussion - we wouldn't support hunting bison with 22lr right? Some things are not allowed for good reason.

And i can appreciate that some people have reservations about handguns and their place in the hunting world. My 'Gut' reaction when introduced to the concept was 'they're underpowered and inaccurate compared to a rifle, it's not a good choice'.

But when you actually look into it, for deer sized game and smaller the fact is they ARE a reasonable choice - and there are times it's a better idea than a rifle.

I suspect 99 percent of hunters in about 90 percent of conditions will still use a rifle as their primary tool. But every time you add valid options you increase the opportunity to enjoy hunting in another way, and that's always a good thing. The more people get out of hunting, the more people get into hunting.

 

[tootall]

Gunz4grls,

would you deny a handicapped person the chance to hunt?


This article was originally posted on Handgun Hunter magazine.


Handguns For Disabled Hunters?
by Harry Marsh

The last day of July, 1988 was the last day of my "normal life". I was involved in a head on automobile accident that very nearly killed me and I spent the next 8 months in the hospital and endured 13 surgical operations in an attempt to put me back together in somewhat the same fashion that I was in prior to the accident.

Upon leaving the hospital in April of 1989 I was confined to a wheelchair, maybe for the rest of my life. I thought that perhaps my hunting and fishing that I loved was forever beyond my reach. After extensive physical therapy and a whole lot of help and understanding from my bride, I was eventually able to walk short distances with the assistance of a cane. Neither my orthopedic surgeon nor my physical therapist thought it was a great idea. My right foot was left paralyzed and my left leg is now approximately 3 inches shorter than my right leg.


I also have lost the use of some of the muscles in my legs due to the spinal cord injury I sustained in the accident. My balance is very poor and consequently I fall a lot. Fortunately, I have been able to fall without serious injury, SO FAR!

I began to entertain the idea that maybe I could launch, retrieve and fish out of a small aluminum bass boat, so I purchased one. After a trial and error period I was able to devise a method to be able to once again bass fish! I wear my life jacket all the time just in case I should fall out of the boat! After a few successful years of fishing I began to entertain the idea that maybe I could hunt as well.

I had always wanted to take a Wild Turkey, but when I was growing up in Kentucky during the 50's there were few if any turkeys to be had. A number of years ago the National Wild Turkey Federation was formed and now primarily through their efforts Wild turkeys are now abundant throughout the country. I didn't know if I could enter the woods carrying a shotgun and get back far enough in the woods to have a chance of taking a turkey. I was determined to try. I had absolutely nothing to hunt with. I purchased a shotgun, camo clothing, boots, turkey calls and videos on how to use them and proceeded to drive my wife nuts practicing on my calls. Opening day of the turkey season here in Florida I nearly succeeded in taking one but a rookie mistake on my part blew it. Opening day of the next year I called in and harvested a nice Gobbler. Well, if that was possible maybe I could deer hunt as well!

I entered the drawing for a three day disabled deer hunt put on by the Eglin Air Force base on their massive grounds and was able to take my first buck, a little 3 point, with the aid and help of my Son-in-law and his borrowed 30-06 Browning deer rifle. A couple of my friends where I worked talked me into joining a Wildlife Management area here in the Pensacola area of Florida. I am unable to safely climb a ladder stand so I hunted out of a ground blind built by my friends. They would carry my newly bought Ruger 7mm Remington Magnum, folding chair and borrowed shooting stick and set up my blind while I was dragging along behind having to stop now and then to rest.

Once they got me all fixed up they would go get into their blinds. I was able to take an 8 point from that blind. Of course they had to go drag it in, hang it, skin and butcher it for me. What friends! Two years ago I purchased a pop-up blind to hunt out of. Larry Maxwell one of my hunting buddies owns a number of firearms including handguns. I shot one of his Contenders at the range one day and it dawned on me that this was the perfect firearm for me to hunt with. I traded Larry my deer rifle for one of his scoped contenders in 30-30 caliber. I went to the range and found a load that was pretty accurate. This last year I hunted with it but did not get a shot.


I decided that this was the only way for me to go and I sold all of my long guns and purchased a 7/30 Waters barrel and a 3X12 Burris scope. As soon as I get it all together I will go to the range and get as proficient with it as I can prior to this years hunting season. I bought a bandoleer type holster and belt for it and it will be a lot easier to drag around out in the woods.

I wrote this article for a couple of reasons. The first is to encourage other disabled hunters to consider using the Contender or Encore to hunt with. They are a WHOLE lot easier to pack around, extremely fun to shoot, and open new avenues to hunting and shooting. One of the problems I was encountering with the long gun was changing positions in my cramped little blind. It has numerous "gun ports" in it and trying to change positions from port to another with the gun and shooting stick was difficult to say the least. Those of you who are mobility impaired will know exactly what I'm talking about.
This is the position I use when hunting out of my blind. My cane is resting on top of my foot. A shooting stick would probably be better but it would be one more thing to carry into the woods.

I place my cane on top of one of my feet, place my left hand on top of the cane and then rest the Contender on my hand. Using this method I can get a very steady rest and shift from port to port with little difficulty with the shorter handgun.

My hunting areas include piney woods which will limit my shots to fairly short range and clear cuts which might provide a shot of several hundred yards. Consequently I chose the Burris 3X12 scope to cover all situations. Someone who hunts in fairly thick areas could get by with a lower powered scope such as a 2X6 or fixed powered scope.

If you are mobility impaired or physically disabled, your hunting need not be over! With just a little help from your friends you can enjoy hunting again. As most of the real experienced handgun hunters on this site can tell you it is necessary to practice, practice, and practice some more. You may never get good enough to reach out and touch them at great distances, but you can get proficient enough to make clean kills at 100 yards or less with a decent rest. I cannot wait for the next season to roll around. Even at age 64 and disabled I know I can get one with my Contender if I get the chance. I wish I had discovered the Contender years ago. I don't know exactly how it is going to feel but I guarantee you it will be a hoot!

Harry Marsh
Pensacola, Florida



G4g, you are passionate about your core beliefs, and that is not a bad thing. But if you stand back a bit and look at the whole debate objectively, you just might change your mind a bit. Foxer did.
He, at one time, was not really hip on HG hunting, and now he is one of the strongest supporters, even though, by his own admission, will probably not go for big game.

 

[Teapot]

Tootall, that was a great story. Sorry to hear about your accident but I am glad you got around your limitations. Best of luck with hunting during the next season.

 

[canadian hunter312]

whats the point of even having discussions on this kind of stuff on this site? theres always people that disagree with the majority no matter what its about and there is ALWAYS a bunch of ####tards that bash and flame the people that disagree with the majority

for those who wont accept someones opinion...

SHUT THE #### UP

id like to use a handgun for hunting and then id actually have a reason to buy a handgun. but, i think its best that handgun hunting isnt allowed. there would be way too many people calling the cops because some "maniac" is carrying a handgun.

there should be a permit for people in bear/cougar country that would allow them to carry a handgun for backup only...

 

[Foxer]

for those who wont accept someones opinion...

SHUT THE f**k UP

Rofl - i'm wondering if you see the hypocracy of telling people it's wrong to disagree with others because you disagree with it

Seriously - as long as it stays civil it's valuable. Heated is fine but the idea of a forum is to bounce ideas back and forth and debate them. So take 'er easy there, and remember that it's ok to disagree with others. Of course - you might disagree with that

there would be way too many people calling the cops because some "maniac" is carrying a handgun.

In the woods? i have to seriously question the logic of this.. we don't get 'man with a rifle' calls all the time or anything. Who in the woods is going to call the cops because they saw a guy with a gun, pistol or otherwise?

Lets suppose however they did. How long till the cops get sick of that in a hurry and start asking 'was he threatening anyone, or was he hunting?'

The ONE time a cop can get in REAL trouble is if he interferes with a lawful hunt. That can actually be serious if the person knows how to pursue it. The police would have the right to stop us, ask questions, look over our papers, but then they'd have to leave us alone. Pretty soon that's going to get REAL boring, especially in provinces like bc and Alberta.

If anything, after a very brief 'surprise' phase, people will get used to seeing handguns in the woods, much as they're used to seeing rifles now. They'll likely become more relaxed about handguns and many will realize there are other legitimate uses of handguns.

I'm not sure that particular concern is valid.

 

[gitrdun]

whats the point of even having discussions on this kind of stuff on this site? theres always people that disagree with the majority no matter what its about and there is ALWAYS a bunch of f**ktards that bash and flame the people that disagree with the majority

for those who wont accept someones opinion...

SHUT THE f**k UP
id like to use a handgun for hunting and then id actually have a reason to buy a handgun. but, i think its best that handgun hunting isnt allowed. there would be way too many people calling the cops because some "maniac" is carrying a handgun.

there should be a permit for people in bear/cougar country that would allow them to carry a handgun for backup only...

A large statement made right there. Perhaps you should have instructed the person who POSTED THE QUESTION IN THE FIRST PLACE AND POSTED A POLL to shut the f**k up. Or perhaps you should start a new poll that goes something like this:

1. those who support it - click here.
2. those who support it - click here.
3. those who support it - click here.

Sorry that I and and few others don't agree with the majority. You see my little commy friend, that is what's called a democracy. A country where people can peacefully and agreably disagree. I had stated earlier that perhaps some folks with whom I've debated this topic could probably given time and discussion may sway my view on this topic. To those people, I recommend that you NEVER send such an idiot to represent your case. Foxer and Salty come to mind as good advocates of the cause.

I won't humour you with a rebuttal, altough I can think of many. YOUR TRUE COLORS ARE SHOWING sir. Perhaps you'd be better off letting someone else filter your ramblings before you post.

 

[Foxer]

Sorry that I and and few others don't agree with the majority.

No you're not.

You see my little commy friend,

No name calling bud, seriously. Keep it civil.

 

[trevj]

I'd like very much, to be able to carry a handgun for grouse and small game. Big game with a handgun does not have the draw for me that bowhunting does, but I can see the appeal, as well as the challenge.

Cheers
Trev

 

[BCWILL]

I'd Hunt with a Handgun in a snap If it was allowed

Canadians can Lawfully own the Dam things so why the Heck can't they use them Lawfully too ?

There seems to be lots of GOOD Solid reasons in favour of allowing Handgun Hunting

It seems though NO Good Solid reasons to not allow it.....other then some obvious "media induced" fears and speculations regarding safety etc.

Bring on the ATT's for the purpose of Hunting & Sporting uses when in the Field
& change BC's DUMB law preventing hunting with a firearm designed to be shot one handed !

 

[werewolf]

while all the anti-handgun hunting types go on, I'll add my two bits about Road hunters...you know, the hero's roaring up and shooting from inside their trucks. GOOD RIFLE HUNTERS ALL, or how about the Mag. guys, blowing extremities off moose and deer alike, cause they flinch so ####ing bad after putting a couple of rounds down range that they did'nt bother spending any time getting to know their gun. Oh you can call "bull####" but I can back up what I'm talking about.

As far as any one of us going on about the "evils" of handgun hunting, might I add this, What do you need an AR15 for? What do you need that sniper rifle for?(by the way I own an AR and a "sniper rifle") I guess what I'm saying is, that if you don't want to carry a handgun for any number of reasons, that's your right, just as it should be my right to carry a handgun for whatever legitimate reasons I want to.

 

[Foxer]

It seems though NO Good Solid reasons to not allow it.....other then some obvious "media induced" fears and speculations regarding safety etc.

Well - as i said before, there ARE some valid concerns.

But i think the key issue is it's quite obvious that those concerns can be addressed by proper rules where necessary. Limit the cartridges that can be used to be appropriate for game. Limit barrel lengths if necessary. If worse came to worse, start adding a small section teaching people about handguns to the CORE program so that people knew where and when handguns could be used appropriately. There wouldn't be a hell of a lot of information needed - just some basics about cartridges and ranges and such. Maybe an hour's extra information.

And if someone can successfully demonstrate that new pistol users are more likely to be inaccurate to the point of being dangerous - fine, we can make people require to qualify by putting 5 rounds in a pie plate at 50 yards or what the hell ever.

I doubt even any of that would be necessary - but if there is a legitimate concern then it can be addressed.

In and of itself, it is difficult to see how a purpose-designed hunting pistol could be inherently more likely to cause wounded game or firearms accidents than a rifle or bow. It would seem that the question isn't 'should we do it' but rather 'what would be the best way to do it' to make sure it's safe and effective.

 

[Foxer]

As far as any one of us going on about the "evils" of handgun hunting, might I add this, What do you need an AR15 for? What do you need that sniper rifle for?

I think that's 'mixing' topics. No one is saying handguns shouldn't be owned. I think they're questioning if they are an appropriate tool for hunting. For example - everyone agrees 22lr's are fine guns to own, but no one would suggest we should allow them for moose.

However, if one is going to take the position that handguns should not be allowed - one must demonstrate that they are either a) more likely to result in injury to humans or property than other tools, OR b) they are more likely to wound animals and are therefore unethical tools for hunting that class of animal.

I think bison hunting with a 357 is probably not something we'd want to see as hunters But it's hard to imagine how someone would be more endangered or the animals more wounded hunting grouse for example.

And obviously most purpose built hunting rigs have enough horsepower for deer class animals (deer, bear, whatever).

So far - i have not heard anyone explain how a handgun may represent a greater danger to saftey than a long gun, (except maybe because people are inexperienced with them) and i have not heard anyone question the power of purpose-built hunting handguns for medium or smaller game.

So - while i understand there's some valid concerns, I haven't heard one that doesn't seem pretty damn easy to address with proper restrictions or rules.

 

[werewolf]

Well how about this, and yes...I'm going to mix subjects here, ever hear of a guy named Howard Hill? And yes there are people here saying pointblank that handgun hunting shouldn't be allowed.

Back to Howard Hill, I doubt very much that there is anyone alive today "even with a compound bow" that could come close to what he could do with a long bow. That being said, does that mean that we mere mortals shouldn't be allowed to hunt with a bow?

 

[Gatehouse]

A large statement made right there. Perhaps you should have instructed the person who POSTED THE QUESTION IN THE FIRST PLACE AND POSTED A POLL to shut the f**k up. Or perhaps you should start a new poll that goes something like this:

1. those who support it - click here.
2. those who support it - click here.
3. those who support it - click here.

Sorry that I and and few others don't agree with the majority. You see my little commy friend, that is what's called a democracy. A country where people can peacefully and agreably disagree. I had stated earlier that perhaps some folks with whom I've debated this topic could probably given time and discussion may sway my view on this topic. To those people, I recommend that you NEVER send such an idiot to represent your case. Foxer and Salty come to mind as good advocates of the cause.

I won't humour you with a rebuttal, altough I can think of many. YOUR TRUE COLORS ARE SHOWING sir. Perhaps you'd be better off letting someone else filter your ramblings before you post.

So..

have you provided any serious, clear evidence *WHY* we should not hunt with hanguns?

No.

Youhave provided zero, except "You are not comfortable with it"

YOu ahve zero basis for your safety concerns, zero basis for your ethical concerns..ZERO..

You have no argument.....

\
PLEASE..amy anti handgunner...PLEAE put up some facts....SHOW us that in states that allow handguns that there is accidents etc...

DO IT..

What? You can't do it? Because there is NO evidence to support your claims?

 

[BCWILL]

Well - as i said before, there ARE some valid concerns.

But i think the key issue is it's quite obvious that those concerns can be addressed by proper rules where necessary.

Yes.......Valid Concerns ?

Not one mentioned thus far has anything specifically to do with "Handguns" though ?

BC has some pretty lax Calibre Laws already governing Big Game animals, such as Coastal brown Bears can be Legally hunted with a 22 Hornet if you so desired...yet there doesn't seem to be a Widespread epidemic of "Wounded" animals running amock due to "underpowered" firearms being used. Realistically most Hunters it would seem already "police" themselves regarding cartridge choices etc. I'm sure Handguns would follow suit, perhaps just carry the centrefire/ rimfire laws onto handguns

As far as making Folks "Qualify" with a Handgun why stop there ?......I'd Guarantee FAR more animals are and will continue to be "wounded" by Rifle Hunters long after Handguns hit the scene. Largely of course due to the Vast Majority of Hunters using the Rifle instead of the other choices but I think it's a Valid observation nonetheless.

I still HOLD by my Statement that NO ONE has yet suggested any "Legitimate" reasons as to WHY Handguns are not allowed in the Field other then conjecture and alot of what ifs etc.......

 

[tootall]

Tootall, that was a great story. Sorry to hear about your accident but I am glad you got around your limitations. Best of luck with hunting during the next season.

I should probably clarify this a bit.

I am not the authour, i just pulled it off of another website.
(and I dont live in Pensacola, FL either!)

But thanks for the concern, nontheless!