The 45/70 not suitable for moose past 200 yards? Then how the hell did the buffalo hunters of old kill so many bison at longer ranges, wiht the 45/70 and similar cartridges?
At a guess - they likey kept shooting animals till one fell over. The others weren't their problem.
We just had an experienced guy a few months ago here talking about it - how he loved his 45-70 and it was very effective on moose at short range, but didn't do well at all on one he shot slightly beyond that.
See this is the problems with the stories you read - they don't mention how many times it DIDN'T work.
Just becase the shooter does not posses the skill to use his gun at longer ranges, does not mean that the cartridge cannot do it.
And just because one person tells you about the times he got lucky and avoids the times he didn't doesn't mean it can.
Well, many of us have already stated that we were talking about "normal" ranges like 50 or so yards
Then maybe talking about the figures at 50 yards would be more appropriate, dont you think?
Now I'm not saying a 44 pistol has to be as powerful as a 44 carbine to get the job done. Or that a 6 inch or whatever revolver won't kill deer stone dead at 50 yards. What i'm saying is that having the appearance of having 'unusually powerful' handguns adds a lot of weight to the argument when people don't understand what handguns are capable of.
Unless we can come up with some sort of 'measure' that is the handgun equivilent of 'ftlbs' that is. Then it gets a hell of a lot easier. Maybe momentum and calibre combined could give some sort of easy reference number. Or just say 'over 40 cal, this much momentum is considered adequate for deer, etc.' I don't know, something like that. Something so that guys can disregard the various 'opinions' (because there'll always be someone who says it's fine, and someone who says it's rubbish) and have some sort of comparible that they can understand.
here's what i mean - a 170 grain 30 cal bullet coming out of a 30-30 at 2200 fps has a momentum of 374000 grains per ft/second. A 240 grain slug coming out of a gun at 1100 fps has a momentum of 264000, or roughly only 30 percent less power. Both create a similarly lethal wound channel at similar energy levels, the 30-30 due to it's ability to create cavication (due to it's higher kinetic energy) and the 44 due to calibre. So shooting a deer at 50 yards with a 44 mag should have pretty much the same terminal performance as a 30-30 at 65 yards.
(now, that's not quite true because i'd have to calculate the power at impact, not at the muzzle. The 44 will bleed energy faster. But you get the idea).
Now THAT is something hunters could understand. "Would you feel comfortable shooting a deer in the vitals at 65 yards with a 30 30?" "Why yes, of course." "well then, you should have no fear of shooting a deer at 50 yards with a 44, because the lethality is about the same".
"ahhh" - says mr hunter. "I understand. Well that doesn't sound too bad, as long as you can hit it."
Now i realize it's not apples to apples. The 44 might well penetrate better in flesh - then again, bone and stuff might cause it to stop sooner. It's not exactly a 'conversion'. But it gives people a good idea of what you're talking about.
Then at least you could come up with something based on real life experiences and say 'a cartridge 44 cal or larger has to have about 175k grains per foot/second (gfs) to be considered adequate to hunt deer, and any gun that achieves that is probably just fine. ( i totally just made that number up, but a number should be able to be worked out based on the generally accepted 'best max range' of a gun, which is about 75 - 100 yards for a 44 i believe).
