Foxer said:
At 50 yards. under 'range' conditions. It's not good enough to hunt with in the real world.
FYI Range condiitons in this case was kneeling int he snow, and shooting 5 shots in less than a minute. Not "bench rest waiting one minute between each shot"
In the field I think it woudl be more appropriate to sit on your ass and support both your elbows wiht your knees.
If someone shot that bad with a rifle - you'd never say 'you're good to go, just keep it to 50 yards', you'd say 'i think we better practice a little more'.
Yup, I sure would. and as I said- I had not practiced in months. However, every single one of those shots woudl have killed a deer, so maybe handguns arent' as tough to do good work wiht as some may believe...
Gatehouse, if you're trying to claim that someone who can only keep a 7.5 inch group at 50 yards at the RANGE is accurate enough to go out in the woods under hunting conditions and shoot at game, you're not being honest OR you're not caring about the animals
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Did I say that? No, I htink i said in my very first post with the target that "I am sure I coudl do better wiht more practice" But the fact of the matter is that every one of those bullets woudl have killed a deer, had I been kneeling in the snow, the way I was.
At 70 yards that would have been 2 wounded deer and 3 kills - that's not acceptable.
You sure about that? Every shot was within 3,5-4" of POA. Extend that a bit by 20 yards and the shots should go within 6" of POA and it still should do the job. But why woudl I want to shoot at a deer 70 yards away?
And unless you're going to laser every animal, the chances are 100 percent you'll mistake a range estimation by at least 20 yards at some point
Speak for yourself. Range estimation doens't relaly get difficult for the average person until it gets out past 150 yards or so. And besides- I woudln't need to knwo exactly what range I was shooting- just if I was close enough- which really isn't that difficult when you are looking at an animal at close range. Besides, the responsible hunter will always err on the side of caution.
. And that assumes you can shoot as well in the feild when you're tired or sleepy or startled/surprised on uneven ground shooting slightly uphill or down hill as you can on the level ground of the range with no adrenaline.
This is a consideration wiht any weapon.
With bows it's different. Mistaking 70 yards for 50 yards doesn't mean a wounded deer, it means the arrow didn't get anywhere near the deer. And most archery is at less than that - it's easier to say "is that 30 yards or 20" than it is to say "Is that 70 yards or 60"? The farther you go, the more room for error.
So use proper judgemnt, and don't shot beyond your capabilities. I dont' shoot past my capabilities wiht arifle or bow, so why woudl I suddenly switch to stretchign my capabilities because I switched to a different weapon? I think that most hunters are like that.
Now i know what you're going to say - with a little practice, you'd do a lot better. I believe that without question. I don't believe you'd go out shooting at deer at 50 yards after having shot that crappy a pattern without more practice
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Of course I woudl practice more, but I hardly think that 5 shots in the kill zone is a "crappy pattern"
But heres the thing - in one or two range sessions we can get almost anyone hitting half that size or better a pattern with a rifle.
I woudlnt' suggest taking on any form of hunting without practice, regardless of weapon choice.
So - the margin of error is way less. Yet you, a long time gun owner who's shot his pistol many times and has owned it for a year or more now cannot shoot well enough to ethically go into the woods and hunt deer with it unless you were going to keep your shots to more like 25 yards so there's SOME margin of error.
More accurate woudl be " Long time gun owner that has not shot with ahandgun for months takes 5 quick shots wiht a handgun from kneeling at 50 yards, and manages to put all the bullets into the kill zone of a deer, proving that it's not rocket science to shoot a handgun decently, but more practice is preffered"
And thats what worries people. That the amount of effort necessary to hunt within the practical range of the pistol (somewhere around 70 - 100 yards or so) is SO high, that many won't bother and will go into the woods with marginal skills.
I think that those not willing to go to the effort to practice are going to take the easiest route anyway- which is a rifle. We arent' proposing a seperate handgun seasonthat could be "taken advatage of by opportunistic rifle hunters- liek a seperate bow season- so there is no real advantage to using a handgun, and those people will be drawn to the rifles anyway.
Do we worry that Joe Hunter is going into the woods wiht marginal skills but still takes shots at 300 yardswith his rifle? Why should the rules be different for handguns?
That COULD be overcome with some sort of testing - shoot 5 rounds into 6 inches at 50 three times in a row and you're good to go or something along those lines. But you'll have to address it.
I woudl welcome mandatory skill testing of all hunters using appropriate criteria for thier weapons- Bows at 40 yards, handguns at 50, rifles at 200 for example. But all segments of the hunting community should play by the same rules.
Your target is a perfect example: Even experienced hangunners may not have the skill to shoot at hunting ranges ethically
Once again, my target is an example of a unpracticed shooter wiht few handgun skills- certainly not an expert- shooting 5 bullets into a kill zone form kneeling, one elbow supported, in the snow.
I can hardly wait to try another group, may even shoot 2 groups of 3, because we generlaly shoot 3 shot groups wiht hunting rifles. Maybe my skills will ave increased, and I'll be able to shoot a deer at 55 yards.
