Handloading .455 for Webley MK I

An older manual had data with Nobel powders too. The Alliant data came from that company's free guide:

LEE455Webleydatacroppd.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z76/kg427-2/LEE455Webleydatacroppd.jpg
Alliant96-98_45data.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z76/kg427-2/Alliant96-98_45data.jpg
 
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My 455's are not Webley break opens. Stating that off the get-go.
I've a S & W 455 Webley and a Colt New Service in 455 Eley. I use 45 LC bullets cast in pure lead over 4.5 grains of Unique in cut down 45 Schofield brass ( Hornady ) with thinned rims in the Smith and the same load in 455 Webley mk2 brass ( Hornady again) in the Colt ( this is a brisk load...4.2 is quite sedate though...perhaps better for a break top)
Someone had stated they used Unique powder for a slow burn. I believe this statement to be wrong; Unique is a fast powder. Interweb is wonderful but also a source of as much bad information as good.
Thinning the rim on Schofield brass isn't that hard; throw it in a drill press, turn on the drill and using a wooden (round ended) file handle pressed into the primer pocket with your L hand ( so you don't pull the case out of the chuck) give it about 8-10 strokes with a good sharp file in your R hand ( if you are R handed of course) to thin the rim to about .035.
Shorten it to desired length with a tubing cutter & Bob's your uncle.
Do your research though...trusting us for 'Magic recipes' can end poorly
 
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tokguy said:
My 455's are not Webley break opens. Stating that off the get-go.
I've a S & W 455 Webley and a Colt New Service in 455 Eley. I use 45 LC bullets cast in pure lead over 4.5 grains of Unique in cut down 45 Schofield brass ( Hornady ) with thinned rims in the Smith and the same load in 455 Webley mk2 brass ( Hornady again) in the Colt ( this is a brisk load...4.2 is quite sedate though...perhaps better for a break top)
Someone had stated they used Unique powder for a slow burn. I believe this statement to be wrong; Unique is a fast powder. Interweb is wonderful but also a source of as much bad information as good.
Thinning the rim on Schofield brass isn't that hard; throw it in a drill press, turn on the drill and using a wooden (round ended) file handle pressed into the primer pocket with your L hand ( so you don't pull the case out of the chuck) give it about 8-10 strokes with a good sharp file in your R hand ( if you are R handed of course) to thin the rim to about .035.
Shorten it to desired length with a tubing cutter & Bob's your uncle.
Do your research though...trusting us for 'Magic recipes' can end poorly
Click to expand...
Unique is one of the slower pistol powders, as compared to Bullseye, IMR700, W231, etc. That is probably what the other person meant.
 
Hi guys,

Any data for 45acp in a webley mk1 loaded with trail boss ???

I was told by dingus that 4gr is safe. Knowing that the mak pressure is 12000 psi, i'd like to know how to work up the load till i find the perfect one.

I use .452 200gr swc soft casted.

Thanks !

Olivier
 
Trail Boss is a great powder and practically kinda universal for any cartridge.
It is bulky and prevents double charge.
Since I discovered TB powder I use it in all my loads.

Back to the subject... I recommend starting your load with 2 grains of TB and measure the speed.
Read some similar threads here and 3.4 grains is safe too... but again this is for 455 Webley brass.
So I recommend starting with 2 grains and increase by 0.5 grain until you reach 650 fps speed with 45 ACP cartridge.

455s.jpg


olivierlamothe said:
Hi guys,
Any data for 45acp in a webley mk1 loaded with trail boss ???
I was told by dingus that 4gr is safe. Knowing that the mak pressure is 12000 psi, i'd like to know how to work up the load till i find the perfect one.
I use .452 200gr swc soft casted.
Thanks !
Olivier
Click to expand...
 
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2 grains TB is 'WAAAAY too light; it'll be dirty as he11.

{edit} - And while on the topic, I read an article to the effect that the .455 Webleys were all drilled with a 0.442" drill, and the rifling is 0.004" either side for a grand total of 0.450"; why they call them "455" is just one of those little mysteries of history. The Webley has a mammoth forcing cone and will accept large oversize bullets, but why? I always size my .455 bullets to 0.450" (largely because that's the only .45 sizer I had), and have had no problems; have a 0.452" sizer on the way, will keep you informed.
 
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To my mind .450 bullet will be a little loose in the bore.
How about .454 diameter lead bullets?

Hornady_45_cal_454_diam_255_LFN.jpg


Ideally .454 lead bullets cause they are soft or .452 jacketed bullet
 
Everglade said:
Hi guys!

Sorry for digging up an old thread ))
Has anyone tried Starline 455 Casull brass for Webley Mark 2 revolvers?
I hear folks using 45 Colt and 45 S&W Schofield brass cases to reload for Webley revolvers but never heard if 455 Casull brass will work.
Please advice.
Click to expand...


this what I have done , the gun in question is a French mas 1873

the rim on 455 webley is larger diameter and thinner than 45 colt / schofield . the rim on 45 schofield is slightly larger in diameter , but the same thickness as 45 colt .

I rechambered it to 45 schofield , but I cut a step where the case rim meets the cylinder so 455 and 45 colt/ schofield headspace properly .

454 casull brass would work for me , but the price is easily double that of 45 colt or schofield ..... and there is no benefit for using the casull brass .

I've cut several 45 colt and 454 brass apart , and internally they are the same thickness , the only difference being that 454 uses a small primer .

for all intents and purposes just consider 454 brass a longer version of 45 colt brass , with a different primer .

btw depending on how the hammer strikes the primer on these old guns , the small primer on 454 might cause ignition failures ....... meaning the hammer may be hitting the end of the case rather than the primer .


------

edit

something else to think about , webleys where pressure tested in long tons , like a lee enfield ....... the short version of this is when converted , it works out to almost 16,000 psi .

to explain this , they where rated at 6 long tons , which converts into about 13,500 psi ...... but they measured rearward thrust of the case head to the frame .

so this is 13,500 psi of rearward thrust , not actual pressure generated within the case it self .

actual pressure within the case was closer to 16,000psi ( if I find the conversion factor for this i'll post it again ) .

proof pressure would be 1.5 times higher than this .




if guys are looking for bullets , jethunter is the first guy I would contact . he makes some very nice soft bullets that won't wear out your barrel .
 
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I've been thinking of rechambering a shaved (aka 45acp) Webley mkII to take 45 schofield but 45 colt would make an antique a restricted firearm.
 
Here is the handloader's manual of cartridge conversions (4th edition) Webley

Webley Auto & Webley MK1:




Webley MK2 & 457 Woods Magnum:



Jet's work:

 
Yes, i looked up on the hodgdon site but i could no see any pressure curve. I need to know what is the pressure in a 45acp case. My load should never be higher than 12000 psi.

Any idea where or how i could find out ?

Cheers,

Olivier
 
burnt_servo said:
this what I have done , the gun in question is a French mas 1873

the rim on 455 webley is larger diameter and thinner than 45 colt / schofield . the rim on 45 schofield is slightly larger in diameter , but the same thickness as 45 colt .

I rechambered it to 45 schofield , but I cut a step where the case rim meets the cylinder so 455 and 45 colt/ schofield headspace properly .

454 casull brass would work for me , but the price is easily double that of 45 colt or schofield ..... and there is no benefit for using the casull brass .

I've cut several 45 colt and 454 brass apart , and internally they are the same thickness , the only difference being that 454 uses a small primer .

for all intents and purposes just consider 454 brass a longer version of 45 colt brass , with a different primer .

btw depending on how the hammer strikes the primer on these old guns , the small primer on 454 might cause ignition failures ....... meaning the hammer may be hitting the end of the case rather than the primer .


------

edit

something else to think about , webleys where pressure tested in long tons , like a lee enfield ....... the short version of this is when converted , it works out to almost 16,000 psi .

to explain this , they where rated at 6 long tons , which converts into about 13,500 psi ...... but they measured rearward thrust of the case head to the frame .

so this is 13,500 psi of rearward thrust , not actual pressure generated within the case it self .

actual pressure within the case was closer to 16,000psi ( if I find the conversion factor for this i'll post it again ) .

proof pressure would be 1.5 times higher than this .




if guys are looking for bullets , jethunter is the first guy I would contact . he makes some very nice soft bullets that won't wear out your barrel .
Click to expand...

Are you sure about the max pressure of webley mk1 ? Realy 16 000 psi ?
 
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