Has anybody tried out their flash bang yet?

personally for what the average joe is going to use them for...I think the option for a 2-21/2 second delay would be a good option if possible...It would be great if I could mail my used ones back to lockhart and have that option when they get recharged...but all in all I am happy with them and I think lockhart has a great and very well made product :)
 
geologist said:
Bad Lieutenant said:
Maybe Lockhart can weigh in here on why the fuse is set so short? I believe it's currently 1.5 seconds, which is too short for a throw of any decent distance. Could they look into a longer fuse? Perhaps 3 seconds? Possibly as an option? It's one thing to have the lead guy on a tactical entry team toss one of these into a doorway a few feet away, but guys on here aren't using them for that. They want them for, among other things, bear deterrence which could, and likely would, involve throwing these at greater distances.

I know that hand grenades in WWII had longer fuses, as long as 7 seconds, but that time was cut almost in half because the enemy had time to either jump to safety or pick it up and toss it back. I don't think there's any worry of that happening with these, so I'm not sure why such a short fuse time was selected. Apparently M-84 stun grenades have fuses that are up to a second longer...
Click to expand...


It's a typical fuse for a flashbang. The need to shock the badguys BEFORE they can harm their hostages or the entry team is the reason for the short fuse.
Click to expand...

Er, yeah... I basically pointed that out already in my comment above, (that you quoted). The simple fact is the guys on here buying these are not using them for tactical entries to "shock bad guys". (and police services don't take part in CGN group-buys) For the types of use that the civilians on here are buying these for, a longer fuse would seem more appropriate. That's why I'm asking Lockhart if that is a possibility...
 
The fuse is short as these are not meant to be thrown. They are meant to be dropped just inside the door and then go off, stun the bad guy so the team can enter. You guys are looking for longer delays more like a thunderflash or an artillery simulater. These have longer delays to simulate the 4-5 second delay of a hand grenade or artillery. The arty sim would be very effective.
 
Bad Lieutenant said:
Maybe Lockhart can weigh in here on why the fuse is set so short? I believe it's currently 1.5 seconds, which is too short for a throw of any decent distance. Could they look into a longer fuse? Perhaps 3 seconds? Possibly as an option? It's one thing to have the lead guy on a tactical entry team toss one of these into a doorway a few feet away, but guys on here aren't using them for that. They want them for, among other things, bear deterrence which could, and likely would, involve throwing these at greater distances.

I know that hand grenades in WWII had longer fuses, as long as 7 seconds, but that time was cut almost in half because the enemy had time to either jump to safety or pick it up and toss it back. I don't think there's any worry of that happening with these, so I'm not sure why such a short fuse time was selected. Apparently M-84 stun grenades have fuses that are up to a second longer...
Click to expand...

NFDDs are made/designed for dynamic entry and or command detonation. As such they are deployed close to the location of entry or activity, usually within a meter or so. They aren't very effective if they go farther or roll under the couch. That's why they have a short fuse and a design that reduces rolling so it will stay where it is dropped/tossed.

Any thing that isn't fast during entry is detrimental to the element of surprise, whether it's a delayed breaching, slow personnel entry, long fuse or whatever. Thus the short fuse so the element of surpise isn't lost.

I'd recommend a good hard plastic case that will hold the spoon even if the pin is snagged/pulled ESPECIALLY if you are in the woods.
 
Bad Lieutenant said:
Er, yeah... I basically pointed that out already in my comment above, (that you quoted). The simple fact is the guys on here buying these are not using them for tactical entries to "shock bad guys". (and police services don't take part in CGN group-buys) For the types of use that the civilians on here are buying these for, a longer fuse would seem more appropriate. That's why I'm asking Lockhart if that is a possibility...
Click to expand...

Fair enough.
 
skypilot said:
I'd recommend a good hard plastic case that will hold the spoon even if the pin is snagged/pulled ESPECIALLY if you are in the woods.
Click to expand...

sounds like a good idea, ill see if the pouch will allow for some kind of plastic case to fit that will still allow enough room for the device, the pouch has a locking top somewhat like a mag pouch....these are also available from lockhart designed for the devices.

for now I will just use a few tight wraps of electrical tape with the end folded onto itself to allow a fast grab and unwrap.......if I don't have 5-10 seconds or so of time to allow a safe deployment of the device in a bear situation its probably too close to deploy anyway.
This device seems to me a perfect fit for that "30-20 yard danger zone" as a last chance to convince a "big hairy stinky alpha predator" to leave....before I am forced to deploy a firearm as my final deterrant
 
Last edited:
slim123 said:
sounds like a good idea, ill see if the pouch will allow for some kind of plastic case to fit that will still allow enough room for the device, the pouch has a locking top somewhat like a mag pouch....these are also available from lockhart designed for the devices
Click to expand...

hint... maybe look into using kydex
 
slim123 said:
sounds like a good idea, ill see if the pouch will allow for some kind of plastic case to fit that will still allow enough room for the device, the pouch has a locking top somewhat like a mag pouch....these are also available from lockhart designed for the devices.

for now I will just use a few tight wraps of electrical tape with the end folded onto itself to allow a fast grab and unwrap.......if I don't have 5-10 seconds or so of time to allow a safe deployment of the device in a bear situation its probably too close to deploy anyway.
This device seems to me a perfect fit for that "30-20 yard danger zone" as a last chance to convince a "big hairy stinky alpha predator" to leave....before I am forced to deploy a firearm as my final deterrant
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have a handle on it.
 
Everything skypilot says , plus you don't want anyone getting a chance to even think about throwing it back at you.
 
Dukester said:
Everything skypilot says , plus you don't want anyone getting a chance to even think about throwing it back at you.
Click to expand...

Yup lots of good info from him in this thread. Especially regarding possible SOPs for the use/employment of these devices. Not toys to be sure. Though I would think these devices are not exactly equivalent to issued equipment, I would treat them with that level of respect.

Anyone without formal training using these type of devices or grenades in general would be wise study a bit before using them. Especially considering the short fuse. While I understand the short fuse being needed for entry purposes, it seems real short for the civilian world. 2.5 seconds at least is what I would like on mine.
 
SBS_ICEMAN said:
Yup lots of good info from him in this thread. Especially regarding possible SOPs for the use/employment of these devices. Not toys to be sure. Though I would think these devices are not exactly equivalent to issued equipment, I would treat them with that level of respect.

Anyone without formal training using these type of devices or grenades in general would be wise study a bit before using them. Especially considering the short fuse. While I understand the short fuse being needed for entry purposes, it seems real short for the civilian world. 2.5 seconds at least is what I would like on mine.
Click to expand...

I am no longer on a team, and have been retired for a while, but one of the duties I had was to reload the grenades we were using at the time. Self relegated, I was in charge so no one else was going to get hurt doing an admin task I chose for myself. And now I see the suppliers of the devices we used won't ship unless someone at the agency has had their reload certification course. Glad I wasn't one of the reasons they needed to cover their arses !
 
Bad Lieutenant said:
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/14/mounties-fined-after-flash-bang-explodes

It was a flashbang. What... you don't think these ones are capable of injury as well?

Why don't get one, wrap your hand around it and pull the pin...
Click to expand...

It wasn't this flashbang I'll wager, and I wouldn't give ten bucks for one of these. In the interest of science though maybe you could post a video of you greasing one of these bad boys up and shoving it into your experimental canal? Remember 1.5 seconds there Ace !
 
skypilot said:
Bad Lieutenant said:
Maybe Lockhart can weigh in here on why the fuse is set so short? I believe it's currently 1.5 seconds, which is too short for a throw of any decent distance. Could they look into a longer fuse? Perhaps 3 seconds? Possibly as an option?

It's one thing to have the lead guy on a tactical entry team toss one of these into a doorway a few feet away, but guys on here aren't using them for that. They want them for, among other things, bear deterrence which could, and likely would, involve throwing these at greater distances.

I know that hand grenades in WWII had longer fuses, as long as 7 seconds, but that time was cut almost in half because the enemy had time to either jump to safety or pick it up and toss it back. I don't think there's any worry of that happening with these, so I'm not sure why such a short fuse time was selected. Apparently M-84 stun grenades have fuses that are up to a second longer...
Click to expand...


NFDDs are made/designed for dynamic entry and or command detonation. As such they are deployed close to the location of entry or activity, usually within a meter or so. They aren't very effective if they go farther or roll under the couch. That's why they have a short fuse and a design that reduces rolling so it will stay where it is dropped/tossed.

Any thing that isn't fast during entry is detrimental to the element of surprise, whether it's a delayed breaching, slow personnel entry, long fuse or whatever. Thus the short fuse so the element of surpise isn't lost.
Click to expand...

sigh...

Again... I got that. Please read my post. I'm well aware of why these would have short fuses for dynamic entries, as well as the need for surprise (I have been to plenty of such entries).

Again, the guys on here that are getting these aren't buying them for the local police service's tac team. They aren't using them for high-risk entries on suspect's houses. They're using these things as civilians, and whether they're using them as a bear deterrent or just tossing them in some gravel pit for fun, a longer fuse time would be more beneficial.

So, again, I'm wondering if Lockhart could let us know if that is possible or not.
 
Dukester said:
Everything skypilot says , plus you don't want anyone getting a chance to even think about throwing it back at you.
Click to expand...

Why would anyone be "throwing these things back" at anyone on this board?

(which in turn begs the question)

Why would anyone on this board be throwing these at people in the first place?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom