Having trouble sighting in - any suggestions?

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Bloodstriker

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I bought a second hand TRG 22 26" and I was really looking forward to getting this out to the range and giving it a try. Unfortunately, I couldn't not get it sighted in.

The TRG has the 25 MOA ATRS mount on it. I am using a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44. This scope is a stand in until I save up for something better as I "borrowed" it from my 17 HMR.

I tried getting on paper at 25M and if I aim dead center, the point of impact is 3.25" higher than my point of aim. The problem is that there's no more adjustment left in the scope. I've dialed it all the way down. According to Zeiss, the scope only has 43" of adjustment.

As I'm pretty new to shooting, I'm not completely certain what is causing this. My best guess is that the 25 MOA rail combined with the low total adjustment value of the scope is just a bad combination. I'm pretty sure it's not the gun as my 4 shot group at 25M had a 10mm variance CTC.

With this being said, is there any possibility that this could be caused by something else, or does is this situation likely given the information I've provided?

If the cause is indeed what I suspected it to be, I figure my options are the following considering i want to get the rifle up and running ASAP:

1. Buy a new scope. (I am planning to do this later this year, but I'm saving up for a higher end scope so this isn't an option for the short term as I'll wind up with something that I don't want to keep)

2. Change the rails to a 0 MOA one. (Seems really expensive to change the rails on a TRG).

3. Change the rings to one with a cant built in such as the Burris Signatues with inserts. (Not too knowledgeable in this - can I simply reverse the inserts to achieve -20MOA?)

4. Shim the scope with something?

Are there any other options or possibilities?
 
Burris Signature rings with the +10 on the bottom of the front ring and a 0 in the top. Put a 0 on the botom rear and a-10 on top rear. That will give you lots of come ups left in your scope. Then make sure on your next scope purchase for the rifle what MOA in elevation you need to just use the scope and rings.
 
delta1 said:
Burris Signature rings with the +10 on the bottom of the front ring and a 0 in the top. Put a 0 on the botom rear and a-10 on top rear. That will give you lots of come ups left in your scope. Then make sure on your next scope purchase for the rifle what MOA in elevation you need to just use the scope and rings.
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I'll give that a try. Thanks!
 
Boresight at 100 M and use a large enough target so that you can see the bullet hole. Adjust from there. Don't waste time and ammo on 25m. Problems ? PM me and I will walk you through it.
 
Tomochan said:
Boresight at 100 M and use a large enough target so that you can see the bullet hole. Adjust from there. Don't waste time and ammo on 25m. Problems ? PM me and I will walk you through it.
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^^this , even tho your high at 25 you may be much closer at 100, as the sight over bore height come into play at such a close range . If you already started I'm going to assume you got the windage set. If so just go right out to 100 and go from there as Tomochan said
 
I know this is a stupid question but I have seen this on 2 diff occasions with "new" shooters. Is the scope installed with the up adjustment on top? I've seen people install their scopes 90 degrees from the right way and have big issues getting sighted in.
 
43 MOA/2 = 21.5 MOA.

Rail = 25 MOA

Sight above bore = approx 2.5 inches. 2.5 MOA at 100yds

.308 drop at 100yds = 3 MOA

25MOA-21.5MOA= 3.5MOA

3.5MOA - 3 MOA = .5MOA

2.5 MOA + .5 MOA = 3MOA


so best case I've got you shooting 3 inches high at a hundred.

This is close to a 200 yard zero and gives you a 5inch spread between 0 and 300 yards.



Given your 3 inches high at 25m, that gives you a 600m zero and 20 inches high at 100m.
Are you sure it is a 25MOA base and not 40MOA?
 
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Don't ignore the possibility of the scope being fu*ked. I just went through 9 kinds of hell over the last 6 weeks trying everything I know to sight-in an old scope that I had laying around (trying to save a couple of bucks....) that I put onto one of my favorite 22's. The gun shoots perfectly with the open sights - the gun wasn't the problem. I tried it all - bore sighting, different bases , different rings, lapping, etc etc The thing was spraying bullets pretty much everywhere except where I was trying to put them. I finally had my 'guy' take a look and, sure enough, the scope was done-in.
 
sk8r said:
Don't ignore the possibility of the scope being fu*ked. I just went through 9 kinds of hell over the last 6 weeks trying everything I know to sight-in an old scope that I had laying around (trying to save a couple of bucks....) that I put onto one of my favorite 22's. The gun shoots perfectly with the open sights - the gun wasn't the problem. I tried it all - bore sighting, different bases , different rings, lapping, etc etc The thing was spraying bullets pretty much everywhere except where I was trying to put them. I finally had my 'guy' take a look and, sure enough, the scope was done-in.
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That's a possible, however, the last time I used the scope was a week ago and it was working without issue. I could test it with my eotech or aimpoint to verify though.
 
nemesisincanada said:
43 MOA/2 = 21.5 MOA.

Rail = 25 MOA

Sight above bore = approx 2.5 inches. 2.5 MOA at 100yds

.308 drop at 100yds = 3 MOA

25MOA-21.5MOA= 3.5MOA

3.5MOA - 3 MOA = .5MOA

2.5 MOA + .5 MOA = 3MOA


so best case I've got you shooting 3 inches high at a hundred.

This is close to a 200 yard zero and gives you a 5inch spread between 0 and 300 yards.



Given your 3 inches high at 25m, that gives you a 600m zero and 20 inches high at 100m.
Are you sure it is a 25MOA base and not 40MOA?
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Yup. I confirmed with person I bought this from that it's a 25 MOA. I don't think ATRS makes anything else.
 
Shoot at 100 and get back to us. You may be a hair high at 100 but the bright side is that you've got a schwack of elevation which means you'll get way out there without worrying that you'll run out of elevation.
 
BigUglyMan said:
Shoot at 100 and get back to us. You may be a hair high at 100 but the bright side is that you've got a schwack of elevation which means you'll get way out there without worrying that you'll run out of elevation.
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I don't see how if he is 3.5 inches high at 25M, for a sight mounted 3iniches above bore he should be about 2 inches low at 25M for a 100M zero.

For a sight mounted 2.5 inches above bore and hitting 3.3 inches high at 25M that is roughly equivalent to a 550M zero and 15MOA high at a hundred hence why I asked if it is a 40MOA rail.
 
nemesisincanada said:
I don't see how if he is 3.5 inches high at 25M, for a sight mounted 3iniches above bore he should be about 2 inches low at 25M for a 100M zero.

For a sight mounted 2.5 inches above bore and hitting 3.3 inches high at 25M that is roughly equivalent to a 550M zero and 15MOA high at a hundred hence why I asked if it is a 40MOA rail.
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Yup. 15 MOA high sounds about right as I'm completely overshooting the target at 100M. I bought the Burris rings but I don't know how to use them. Do I have to combine a +10 with a -10 on the same ring or can I use a 0 and a +10 together?
 
delta1 said:
If you want to lessen the MOA of your rail put a positive in the bottom front ring with a zero on top in the rear the positive would be on top and the zero on the bottom. Both positives must be the same.
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It says in the instruction manual that a set must be the inverse of the same offset. (i.e. a +10 must be used in conjunction with a -10). I looked at the inserts and it looks like this might be because the thickness is different so a +10 and a 0 would be too thick. I'm just wondering if anyone has successfuly used a +10 with a 0?
 
Estimating that your scope rings are about 5 inches apart all you need to do is add a slight shim to the rear scope ring. If you find a piece of paper that is about .013 inches thick and put a piece on the bottom of the rear ring, you will then be able to zero the scope. Such a thin paper shim will not damage the scope.

Just a word of caution... dont get overly aggressive and put like .030 shim or something because then you may damage the scope. I figure .013 will get you right on the mark.

To determine the shim for scope offset with rings 5 inches apart just divide the amount you need to move the bullet at 100 yards by 700. If the scope rings are 4 inches apart divide by 900 and if the scope rings are 6 inches apart divide by 600.

In your case you want to move 3.25 x 4 = 13 at 100 so 13 divided by 700 = .013 shim

Just for reference... a business card is about .010 thick and a sheet of copy paper is about .003 thick so one piece of each should get you there.
 
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