Help for a 308 Rifle

help on a 308 rifle

Mr Mystic:

Are you suggesting this shooting machine I see on your 6mmbr article as a first rifle for this new to the game rifle shooter? Seems hardly reasonable.
I thought we were talking about a factory rifle ... I'll have to check this 1 mile thing you talk about. I'm guessing it's not done with a 26 inch tube 308 and standard match ammo.

Sniper767

PS: I'm not strong enough to carry all that gear around which seems to be necessary to most of the F-class shooters these days. When I get to the firing line I have my rifle on a bipod, a rear bag, earmuffs and a box of ammo.
No front tripod rest or heavy rear bags filled with lead shot. And I don't need a cart to lug my gear around. It doesn't stop me from hitting 89/90 at the final 600 yds last year in Valcartier (15 sept w/e) I also tied first place at 500 yds with a 90 and won the ensuing shoot off. The SJ Perry 800/900m at Connaught last august didn't go too bad either. In the filed I have my rifle and my Swarovski LRF and I don't even carry a bean bag.
 
A little off topic (you have alot of good info on guns/calibers already) - but your location shown is Montreal - out of curiosity, where do shoot 1000yds?

I can't find any range around Montreal that has more the 200yds - and I'm getting pretty dialed in at this distance & would like to start shooting longer.
 
I had seen the Valcartier range (600yds) mentioned before - but it is around a 2.5 hour drive from Montreal. I will definitely head up there sometime this summer, but I was hoping for something closer -

I suppose I could find Crown land to shoot on if i'm willing to drive a 2-3 hours north of the city.

ICS (the original poster) spoke of 800-1500yds shooting - I still haven't found anything like that here or within a 1 hour drive of Montreal.
 
dbala said:
I had seen the Valcartier range (600yds) mentioned before - but it is around a 2.5 hour drive from Montreal. I will definitely head up there sometime this summer, but I was hoping for something closer -

I suppose I could find Crown land to shoot on if i'm willing to drive a 2-3 hours north of the city.

ICS (the original poster) spoke of 800-1500yds shooting - I still haven't found anything like that here or within a 1 hour drive of Montreal.
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Gotta remember this is Canada, if you want long range chances are you have to do some driving. I drive 4 hours to get to Borden to shoot 1000 yards. Almost 8 hours to get to Ottawa to shoot 900m. I have a local range 17 km from my door where we shot 1000 yards at one time. DND has reduced it to 400m now:mad:
 
Montreal area rifle shooting ranges

Here goes (I'm on the south shore, you'll notice):
Lacadie, home of the bleedin' 1976 OLYMPICS: 100 yds max (chicken s**t)
St-Bruno army base: 1000 PHOQUEN YARDS / 800 PHOQUEN YARDS / 600 PHOKEN YARDS, CLOSED (reason, "army politics" "no training...just talkin"...)
St Jacques-Le-Mineur: heard they have a 200 yds rifle range. Can't remember if I've been there, I'm too old (50 this year... where did I put my car keys again????)
now .... let me think hard .... OH YEAH, The Farnham 600 meter fully-automatic-instamatic army range. Better PM me on that one....
And remember: Proeliator ab pluvius non conliquefactus!
 
sniper, that rifle is my 6.5 Mystic F class rifle. would be an ambitious first rifle but well within the realm of possibilities. This one I shot to 2400yds with 139gr Scenar. You can see lots of pics in the Long Range events forum.

No, I was refering to my Stevens/Pac Nor 223 which I pushed out to a mile and got it on video. See my post near this one. All the ingredients to set it up and reach out are explained in the post. Both 75gr and 80gr Amax make the trip no problem. There is nothing particularly fancy about this rifle but it does shoot very well.

Was not that difficult once I found an accurate load with minimal vertical stringing. The real key is tossing some slugs out to 1400yds and if they get there accurately, you just need alot more up to get to a mile.

The 308's that were shooting with me a few weekends back really surprised me with how well they reached out too. Most were tactical rifles with very standard dimensions and barrel twists. The loads were also very normal with most using 175 gr MK. They said their loads were in the 2700fps range. All very standard stuff.

Before that weekend, I had seen another shooter fail to get to 1400yds with the 175gr MK At the LR shoot, a few shooters who had enough up, made the trip with one going to 1800yds. All were using twists slower then 10.

There were several factory savages and rems at the shoot in 223 and 308. One 223 Savage also made it to a mile with 75gr Amax. Other factory 308's were shooting in the 1000 to 1400yds distance. Most just didn't have enough up to go further.

Both the 223 and 308 are going to get bounced around in the winds so you really got to be on your toes to dope or shoot in calm air. MOA or better accuracy is possible even at a mile IF you can dope the conditions.

This was very surprising to me but not going to complain. I was expecting more like under 2MOA. Really boils down to the bullet and if it will go subsonic while retaining accurate trajectory. Then shooting in predictable air.

I have used several AMax bullets in various cals and they have all worked great at extreme range (155gr Amax would be my 308 choice). There were other bullets that were more accurate closer in but just don't make the trip way out there.

With extreme range shooting, everything goes subsonic so increasing muzzle velocity really doesn't do much. There are US shooters that take their 308's even further.

Jerry

PS hope this answers your email too.
 
Hope I'm not out of line here but I think Jerry was talking about this one:
12F-Class-Target-Rifle.jpg

www.savagearms.com/12f_class.htm
It has a 1:8" twist and MSRP of $1265US, available in 6BR and 6.5-284. Hell of a good start for an F class rifle.


sniper767 said:
Mr Mystic:

Are you suggesting this shooting machine I see on your 6mmbr article as a first rifle for this new to the game rifle shooter? Seems hardly reasonable.
I thought we were talking about a factory rifle ... I'll have to check this 1 mile thing you talk about. I'm guessing it's not done with a 26 inch tube 308 and standard match ammo.

Sniper767
Click to expand...
 
That would be the Savage F(O) rifle I was refering to IF they ever come to Canada. They should shoot very well (1/2min or better) so a great way to get into LR and F class shooting. Decent price too - but you can build one for about the same/less money.

Once you tire of the pipe, you can easily swap in whatever floats your boat for little more investment.

I strongly recommend AGAINST the Savage F(TR). What a horrid stock design!

If you really must shoot a 308 and want a single shot target action, then get a Savage F(O) and swap in a nice match 308 pipe. The stock design on the F(O) is head and shoulders better then that 'other' one.

Or start with a 12FV and swap whatever stock suits your fancy.

Jerry
 
I was looking for one a short while ago myself, I personally chose the 700 SPS Tactical... the cheapest 700 with a 20" HB.
I think it's a good enough base rifle and my budget being what it is it allows me to get decent optics, mount and rings. I'm planning to build on it little by little but it should work fine for some time the way it is.
 
 
dbala said:
A little off topic (you have alot of good info on guns/calibers already) - but your location shown is Montreal - out of curiosity, where do shoot 1000yds?

I can't find any range around Montreal that has more the 200yds - and I'm getting pretty dialed in at this distance & would like to start shooting longer.
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There isn't any ranges in Montreal that go that far, not anymore anyhow. Not even an hour drive from here. You can always drive up North to the boonies and head for a sandpit or drive to Ontario.
But like I said, I'm new to this.
 
mysticplayer said:
That would be the Savage F(O) rifle I was refering to IF they ever come to Canada. They should shoot very well (1/2min or better) so a great way to get into LR and F class shooting. Decent price too - but you can build one for about the same/less money.

Once you tire of the pipe, you can easily swap in whatever floats your boat for little more investment.

I strongly recommend AGAINST the Savage F(TR). What a horrid stock design!

If you really must shoot a 308 and want a single shot target action, then get a Savage F(O) and swap in a nice match 308 pipe. The stock design on the F(O) is head and shoulders better then that 'other' one.

Or start with a 12FV and swap whatever stock suits your fancy.

Jerry
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Thanks Mysticplayer,
You gave a lot of great info.
I chose a 308 for cheap and easy to get ammo. Also it's better than the 223 for distance. Single shot is not really what I want. Anyhow, I have a hell of a lot of info to work from.
Thanks again.
 
Obtunded said:
I've owned TikTac's and they are outstanding. The limitations are the availability of after-market accessories such as stocks.
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Thanks obtuned,
I was keen on getting a Tikka T3 Tactical either in 308 or 300WM. I stopped because the barrel goes till 24" and then I read some stuff about them (accessories and something else) it has been awhile and I can't remember. That made me hold off.
 
Remington R5 milspec.

You can hunt with it if you wanted. You can also use it for target shooting. The 24 inch barrel will limit your velocity compared to the 26 barrels. This might limit your range. I'm not sure by how much. However the twist rate is 11 and 1/2 which allows you to shoot heavier .308 bullets like the 168 grain stuff and up. Just another option to consider.
 
Max Owner said:
Could also get a Stevens 200 and rebarrell it. Cheap rifle. Cost of a barrell may put you into the $1,000 range. Rifle and barrell.
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And what about a new stock to accomodate the heavy barrel? The wet noodle tupperware stock isn't adequate to accomodate anything other than it's original sporter weight barrel.

Oh, and then there's the ####ty trigger to contend with. Yet even more money.

If he's going the Salvage route the FV model would be a far better choice for his budget range. Better yet, get the BVSS if so inclined.

In any event, a 700P or 700 VSF would be far superior to any of the Slavage offerings save for the FP MacMillan or FP HS Precision, both of which are reportedly tough to find in Canada now.
 
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Well (last time off-topic, I promise!) - there is a 200yd range in Terrebonne that I shoot at (Ruisseau Noir) - nothing fancy, but does the trick & its 5 minutes from where I work.

ICS, let me know if you want to try some 200yd shooting - I have a rem 700 VLSS in .223 if you want to give it a try before you buy.

If anyone in Montreal has plans to go to Valcartier or anywhere else for a long-range shoot, please post it or PM me because I would definitely join in. Actually, if anyone wants to just go shoot (200yds) - let me know, I'd be up for that too!

Cheers,
D
 
There was a HS stocked Savage in 308 listed for $850 or so. What a smoking deal for anyone looking to get such a platform. Was in the EE but likely didn't last long. It had the new center feed d mag which is really nice too.

If you did start with a Stevens, you can easily build a semi custom for less then that Savage F(O) will sell up here (assume US MSRP or more). That leaves very little of the Stevens except the action and bolt. Will shoot much better.

For most, the Accutrigger tuned easily to 1.5lbs will be a dream trigger and it does work exceedingly well. But if you want to go lighter, the SSS or RB2 will allow you to go well under 1lb.

As for the 308 shooting further then the 223, NOPE. With the 75gr Amax, a 223 out of a Savage/Stevens can go out to a mile. Ballistically very similar with the edge going to the 223 if you have a slow 308.

Jerry
 
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