Help me! My head hurts.... not anymore. Update in post 23

BC604

BC604

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So, I want to try my hands on reloading. Mainly, just to see if I like it.


The idea of getting a Lee classic Reloader and do it as simple as possible is
really appealing to me as it allows me to do every step by hand.
I’m also a cave/apartment dweller, and don’t have space for huge setups.


I was planning to get one in 7.62x54r. Just before made the purchase I slugged the
barrel of my Mosin and it turns out it has a 0.313 barrel.
No wonder it shoots like crap with the standard .308 surplus!


After reading more about the reloading this caliber I realized that I won’t be able
to accomplish this because the expander in those kits are made for the .308 bullets.


So I dump the idea of the Classic Lee Loader and I'm now thinking of
getting a simple single stage press and get the dies for it,
but I run into problems again. The standard dies come with a .308 expander,
a .311 expander is available but can’t find anything for .312 or .313.
I read that I could use boat tail projectiles and they would seat properly because of
their shape but I can't find anything that would be suitable for hunting.


Also nobody seems to have this particular die set in stock.:bangHead:


Am I completely wrong the way I approach this?

Did I just embark on a mission impossible?

How can I make this work?
 
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sharp shooter said:
here's a tip to remember - Don't buy Winchester brass or new RCBS dies..............
Click to expand...

+1

Another plus to the .303 brit decapper/sizing die you will have to fiddle with the lengths and such but it will work fine. Or you might be able to get away with the 303brit decapping pin in the 7.62x54r. Although 7.62x54r is listed as a .313 diameter bullet and not .308.
 
I load .315" cast pills in my 7.62x54R!!!!!!

I use:
Lyman Orange crusher II press
LEE 7.62x54R dies
LEE 165gr 7.62x39 gas check mold lapped out to .315"
LEE universal neck expanding (M) die

Even back when I was loading .311" flat base speer bullets I never used a .311" expander. I just put a slight chamfer on the inside of the neck of my cases with a couple twists of my case deburing tool.... But LEE says that for $3.75 they will send you a .311" expanding button.

Other things you will need are:
Weigh scales
Primer tray
Deburing tool
Case lube / case lube mat
Case tumbler & cleaning media
Primer pocket/flash hole cleaning tool(s)
Case holder(loading block) tray
Shell holder (#15? For 762x54R)
Powder (imr30-31,imr4350,etc)
Primers (Large rifle)
Cases (once fired Privi Partizan are the best/easiest to obtain)
Chosen bullet (Hornady makes .312" which mork fine in a 313 bore.)
Reloading manuel
 
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Flying_Finn said:
+1

Another plus to the .303 brit decapper/sizing die you will have to fiddle with the lengths and such but it will work fine. Or you might be able to get away with the 303brit decapping pin in the 7.62x54r. Although 7.62x54r is listed as a .313 diameter bullet and not .308.
Click to expand...

.312" Dia. actually....however the Russian inventers think a .001" bore clearace is better than bore Dia.
 
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sharp shooter said:
here's a tip to remember - Don't buy Winchester brass or new RCBS dies..............
Click to expand...

Why is this. I dont load for x54 but 99% of my brass is winchester. No problems. # out of 4 die sets are rcbs again no problems besides the ones I create. When I need parts rcbs ships them for free no questions asked.
 
I have heard that;
The Winchester brass for 762x54R start out as a 45-70gvt blank at the factory.
The rims are made incorrect for the 762x54R.....just like the winchester(and most other American made) 6.5x555sweed which uses an untrimmed 308 rim Dia.(Average .376" Instead of the proper .480" european standard.
I know the 6.5x55 problem to be true, after ripping many a rim from its case while attempting a resize, although can not attest to the same problem with the 762x54R brass. I'm just not willing to spend good $$$ on a bag of Winchester brass only to toss it,or trash my gun since the 762x54R head spaces from the rim.
Besides Privi partizan (ppu) are $19-23 a box for loaded ammo. And the Serbians were actually a communist ammo supplier back in the day (nny) head stamp.
The cases of either nny or ppu are good, thick cases with a case neck anneal and lack of a neck marring "factory cases crimp".
On the other hand RCBS sets of 762x54R dies come with a .311" and a .312" sizing button. The interior of the Dies are also a far superior finish to the LEE sets. I have no idea why you would not buy the (now) competitively priced RCBS dies.
 
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BC604 said:
So, I want to try my hands on reloading. Mainly, just to see if I like it.


The idea of getting a Lee classic Reloader and do it as simple as possible is
really appealing to me as it allows me to do every step by hand.
I’m also a cave/apartment dweller, and don’t have space for huge setups.


I was planning to get one in 7.62x54r. Just before made the purchase I slugged the
barrel of my Mosin and it turns out it has a 0.313 barrel.
No wonder it shoots like crap with the standard .308 surplus!


After reading more about the reloading this caliber I realized that I won’t be able
to accomplish this because the expander in those kits are made for the .308 bullets.


So I dump the idea of the Classic Lee Loader and I'm now thinking of
getting a simple single stage press and get the dies for it,
but I run into problems again. The standard dies come with a .308 expander,
a .311 expander is available but can’t find anything for .312 or .313.
I read that I could use boat tail projectiles and they would seat properly because of
their shape but I can't find anything that would be suitable for hunting.


Also nobody seems to have this particular die set in stock.:bangHead:


Am I completely wrong the way I approach this?

Did I just embark on a mission impossible?

How can I make this work?
Click to expand...

You're over thinking this. There is no expander in the Lee Classic Reloader. It neck sizes only.
I think you're getting press dies and the Classic Reloader kits mixed up.

(E) :cool:
 
Thank you for the great information,
after reading all this I have even more questions than before.

Would I be able to use the Lee Breech Lock Hand Press to reload the 7.62x54?
http://www.budgetshootersupply.ca/frame.cfm?ItemID=650

For casing, I have a few boxes of Sellier & Bellot I intend to reload.
Any experience with the quality of Sellier & Bellot brass?

There seems to be a war between Lee and RCBS dies.
The Lees seems to come as a complete package with adjustable crimp
die and shell holder, where the CBRS dies I would have to buy the
shell holder separately. The description only said
" Die includes a bullet seater plug and built-in roll or taper crimp as appropriate for the particular cartridge. Shellholders sold separately."
As far I understand, with the Lees I can chose if and what kind of crimp I want, where as with
CBRS I can only choose what kind of crimp I want, since it is built in?

Do I get this right?
 
No experience with S&B rifle brass.

If you're just neck sizing, the hand press will work. Full length sizing would be too much effort in a press that's not anchored down. You can do it, but it'd be a PITA.

Not a war, just a different way of selling. Some Lee sets have no shell holder either.

There really is no choice to what type of crimp you apply. Your choice is in sizing the brass.

-Neck sizing (as the name implies) sizes just the neck enough to hold the bullet after seating. Not a strong hold, and on it's own, not recommended for heavy recoiling calibers, pumps, semi's or tube fed firearms. Case life is longer (not being worked as much) and you don't need case lube to do it.

-Full length sizing works the whole case over, sets the shoulder back and sizes the neck. Need lube to do it. Depending on the amount of reworking going on, case life is less. Sometimes a lot less. Neck tension at this point is the same as neck sizing.

The crimp (if you want one) is now applied. Rifle rounds are roll crimped. Lee has the crimp die as a separate step, RCBS has it built into their bullet seating die.

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Potato/potatoe......:p

(E) :cool:

PS
You don't have to use the crimp feature of RCBS dies. It's all in the adjustment of the die.
 
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I reload for my Mosin using Lee dies. I took an expander stem from a .303 die set, and swapped them out. The nut that holds the stem in is TIGHT! It needs to be, or the stem just pushes up and out of the die.

Because Lee seems to think the Mosin should use a .308 bullet rather than the .311, the sizing die will size the neck down enough to hold a .308, then the expander will expand it out again. I thought this was a bit silly, so a dowel, a bit of emory cloth and a drill and about 10 minutes work opened the die about .004

Now the case doesn't need anywhere near as much force to size it, the expander doesn't try to pull the neck off, I get consistent neck tension, and my brass no longer grows. I'm using S&B brass as well, it's pretty good stuff.

So yes, the learning curve is a bit steeper when you start with a Mosin, but if you go slow, think about what you are doing, and why, it can be quite rewarding. Don't be afraid to ask questions.

One hint: if you are looking at the Lee hand press because it is cheaper than the Challenger press, it is likely a false economy.
If you have the space to mount a bench mounted press, it makes things so much easier. It doesn't take much space, even a board C-clamped to your kitchen counter will work. That way it can be put away easily.
The hand press is great for some things, but trying to hold the press up, not spill powder out of the case, place a bullet, and then raise the ram with only two hands at your disposal, is a bit of an operation.
 
ciphery said:
I load .315" cast pills in my 7.62x54R!!!!!!

I use:
Lyman Orange crusher II press
LEE 7.62x54R dies
LEE 165gr 7.62x39 gas check mold lapped out to .315"
LEE universal neck expanding (M) die

Even back when I was loading .311" flat base speer bullets I never used a .311" expander. I just put a slight chamfer on the inside of the neck of my cases with a couple twists of my case deburing tool.... But LEE says that for $3.75 they will send you a .311" expanding button.

Other things you will need are:
Weigh scales--(scale)
Primer tray--(not needed)
Deburing tool---(certainly not needed to start with. Use your pointed knife blade.)
Case lube / case lube mat--(case lube.)
Case tumbler & cleaning media--(Think about this for later.)
Primer pocket/flash hole cleaning tool(s)---(Not needed.)
Case holder(loading block) tray..(not needed.)
Shell holder (#15? For 762x54R)
Powder (imr30-31,imr4350,etc)
Primers (Large rifle)
Cases (once fired Privi Partizan are the best/easiest to obtain)
Chosen bullet (Hornady makes .312" which mork fine in a 313 bore.)
Reloading manuel
Click to expand...

He said his head hurt, thinking of getting started to reload, then you burdened him with a bunch of extras he may want to consider, if he does much reloading.
I trimmed it down to size, a bit.
 
I have used S&B brass for the 762x54R. They are a decent brass however the necks will need trimming, usually to a shorter than I like length.
And there are a lot of scratches and small burrs on the cases.....nothing a good tumbling doesn't fix...I'm just picky.

BTW a shell holder is $4 as is a .311" case neck expander...so either way you are going to need a $4 part. Difference is every gun store has a #15 shell holder....plus my LEE dies required a slight lapping with some 000 steel wool when they were new. RCBS dies look like a mirror to begin with.
 
H4831 said:
He said his head hurt, thinking of getting started to reload, then you burdened him with a bunch of extras he may want to consider, if he does much reloading.
I trimmed it down to size, a bit.
Click to expand...

Not because of thinking getting into reloading, I read lots of books, watched lots of reloading videos, I know
in theory how it works and what tools I need. It is just this specific caliber is very confusing, because of
the die manufacturers making the dies to re size to .308, which is not the appropriate size for the Mosin.

Rory McCanuck
I reload for my Mosin using Lee dies. I took an expander stem from a .303 die set, and swapped them out. The nut that holds the stem in is TIGHT! It needs to be, or the stem just pushes up and out of the die.

Because Lee seems to think the Mosin should use a .308 bullet rather than the .311, the sizing die will size the neck down enough to hold a .308, then the expander will expand it out again. I thought this was a bit silly, so a dowel, a bit of emory cloth and a drill and about 10 minutes work opened the die about .004

Now the case doesn't need anywhere near as much force to size it, the expander doesn't try to pull the neck off, I get consistent neck tension, and my brass no longer grows. I'm using S&B brass as well, it's pretty good stuff.

So yes, the learning curve is a bit steeper when you start with a Mosin, but if you go slow, think about what you are doing, and why, it can be quite rewarding. Don't be afraid to ask questions.

One hint: if you are looking at the Lee hand press because it is cheaper than the Challenger press, it is likely a false economy.
If you have the space to mount a bench mounted press, it makes things so much easier. It doesn't take much space, even a board C-clamped to your kitchen counter will work. That way it can be put away easily.
The hand press is great for some things, but trying to hold the press up, not spill powder out of the case, place a bullet, and then raise the ram with only two hands at your disposal, is a bit of an operation.
​
Click to expand...

To modify a die even before doing any reloading is beyond my confidence atm. Reading your post made it
clear to me clear that instead of going with a Lee die I should go and get RCBS die
and save the hassle of having to lap it out in order to make it work.

As for the hand press, I have to have something I can put away after done,
I don't think my better half would appreciate if I bolt a reloading press to the
dining table. :rey2 If it can be done with a hand press I would just buy that.



(((Echo)))
No experience with S&B rifle brass.

If you're just neck sizing, the hand press will work. Full length sizing would be too much effort in a press that's not anchored down. You can do it, but it'd be a PITA.

Not a war, just a different way of selling. Some Lee sets have no shell holder either.

There really is no choice to what type of crimp you apply. Your choice is in sizing the brass.

-Neck sizing (as the name implies) sizes just the neck enough to hold the bullet after seating. Not a strong hold, and on it's own, not recommended for heavy recoiling calibers, pumps, semi's or tube fed firearms. Case life is longer (not being worked as much) and you don't need case lube to do it.

-Full length sizing works the whole case over, sets the shoulder back and sizes the neck. Need lube to do it. Depending on the amount of reworking going on, case life is less. Sometimes a lot less. Neck tension at this point is the same as neck sizing.

The crimp (if you want one) is now applied. Rifle rounds are roll crimped. Lee has the crimp die as a separate step, RCBS has it built into their bullet seating die.

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Potato/potatoe......:p

(E) :cool:

PS
You don't have to use the crimp feature of RCBS dies. It's all in the adjustment of the die.
​
Click to expand...
This really helped me a lot. It seems to me that RCBS die is the way to go for me,
and I would get a neck sizing die set to start with.

Once again thank you all of you for your patience and the great help. :cheers:

I just have one more question (at least for now :D ),
Where could I get RCBS dies from?
Anyone know a store that has it actually in stock?
 
BTW.......good luck trying to resize a 762x54R with a hand held press....unless you look like Brock Lesnar.
If you want to do a full length resize you will need a bench model press.
If you want a hand held tool then you are going to be neck sizing to .308
 
o
ciphery said:
BTW.......good luck trying to resize a 762x54R with a hand held press....unless you look like Brock Lesnar.
If you want to do a full length resize you will need a bench model press.
If you want a hand held tool then you are going to be neck sizing to .308
Click to expand...
Why would a hand held tool limit neck sizing to .308?
 
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