Help Me Read My Target

Ok so back from the range. I could only load 20 rounds because that's all I had left for bullets, so the last group (#7) has only two shots. I had them loaded .3gn apart and seated at 3.723 which is .010 off the lands. Groups look slightly better then the first round.

Thoughts?

PA

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Looking at your first targets and this target your best loads are running 95.1 - 95.8gr. Honestly I would switch powders or possibly bullets. My edge does not like 250gr accubonds or gamekings, it will put them into sub-moa, but it puts 225ttsx and 300gr hybrids or mk into 0.3moa. It would be nice to try some factory loads to get a baseline from your rifle. I would try a couple different bullets if you can, you may not get any tighter than the groups you are getting with your current powder/bullet combo. Or it could be all your rifle is capable of, time will tell.

I only have a few larger caliber rifles (ie burn 90plus grains of powder), I run them in 1gr steps. 1 grain in a laupa is roughly the same as going up 0.3gr in a 6br or similar, so I go in 1 gr increments and then work from there. Just due to the larger case capacity you could burn up $100 worth of bullets and $40 worth of powder in very small steps to end up in the same place.
 
From your first set of groups:
Group 1:Actuality: 2", Probability (potential):0.75". Split group - moving right elbow after two or three shots? Moving/adjusting position?
Group 2: Actuality: 2". Probability: 1".
Group 3: Actuality: 2". Probability: 0.5" Lateral, 1.2" Vertical.
Group 4: Actuality: 2". Probability: 0.75" - Split group.
Group 5: Actuality: 2". Probability: 0.75" Lateral, 2" Vertical.
Group 6: Actuality: 2.5". Probability: you were getting tired.
Probability: 0.5" Lateral, 0.75" Vertical.
Next step: as per the ideas above - use process of eliminatiion: fire ONE type of ammo for basic group analysis, then switch firers on the rifle. Have fun, learn lots, builds up your brass collection, too!! Don't try to shoot too much in one day - not with that calibre anyway! It will take a toll physically and mentally.
 
I agree with LongBomber, probably try some different bullets if you're looking for tighter groups. When looking for good loads I tend to shot a minimum of 4 shot groups, I personally find groups of 3 a little hard to read most times. You can always try a few more groups around 95gr if you're interested in using those bullets.

For the powder increments, I prefer to keep the increments small or double up on each increment load. This helps to remove the possibility of "random" tight groups and I find it easier to see patterns forming. If your shooting skill is very high (mine aren't) and conditions are not playing a role you could get by using wider increments.

Steve
 
I'm going to try a different powder. I have some US869 here but I have no more Mk's. I do have some GMK's in 250gn which I want to make up a load for as well so I may try that as well this weekend, weather permitting. I will have some more Mk's (300gn) on the way with some H4831SC and Retumbo this week so we'll see. I'm loving the trigger time i'm getting behind the thing though, and am really thinking about getting a Chargemaster to speed up the reloading process. I have noticed that i'm getting the sooty neck syndrome with the H1000, i'm not too concerned about sooty necks but I've heard that the US869 is cleaner burning. I've also read that some say that the 869 is too slow and will just make fireballs but I have also read from some who have used it in these rifles that it does not do that.

I appreciate everyone's input though. I'll keep posting results here with what I try out. Practice practice practice...

PA
 
You are now shooting 3-shot groups about a minute or a minute and a quarter in size, which is more or less the same performance you were getting with 5-shot groups of about a minute and a half. So nothing better, nothing worse.

For what it's worth it is quite unlikely that weighing your powder charges will make any noticeable difference in your accuracy at 100 yards (or for that matter even out to 600 yards). Throwing your charges is plenty accurate, not only for initial load development but also even for match shooting at short and mid range, so you can really do yourself a time favour and just throw charges. Weighing charges only starts to become significant when you are shooting half-inch groups and are trying to get just a bit better, or if you are trying to shoot very small groups at 1000 yards or beyond.
 
rnbra-shooter said:
You are now shooting 3-shot groups about a minute or a minute and a quarter in size, which is more or less the same performance you were getting with 5-shot groups of about a minute and a half. So nothing better, nothing worse.

For what it's worth it is quite unlikely that weighing your powder charges will make any noticeable difference in your accuracy at 100 yards (or for that matter even out to 600 yards). Throwing your charges is plenty accurate, not only for initial load development but also even for match shooting at short and mid range, so you can really do yourself a time favour and just throw charges. Weighing charges only starts to become significant when you are shooting half-inch groups and are trying to get just a bit better, or if you are trying to shoot very small groups at 1000 yards or beyond.
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Thanks for that. I am trying to eliminate as many variables as I can but I see your point. I almost wonder if trying to develop loads at 100 yards is not far enough for this caliber, allowing the bullet to "go to sleep" and all. I just got back from the range again and I had made up some loads of 250gn Game Kings and some US869. I emailed Sierra and asked them for loads for that setup and they told me to start at 100 and work up to 108 as a max. So I did. Horrible! I loaded 3 fowlers/sighters, then I loaded in 1gn increments from 100 up to 108, 3 rounds each. The groups were garbage. On two of the groups, shot 1 and 3 were touching, but shot 2 was about 4 inches off to the right. I gave up shooting after about 105gn, I was too frustrated.

Maybe i'll just wait until I get some retumbo and H4831SC to use with the 300 grainers. I dont know what i'll do with the other 6 rounds I have loaded with the US869. Maybe just pull them and save the powder to try with the 300's as well. I'm not even going to bother posting the target, unless it's needed.

Ugh

PA
 
In your OP you didn't say what you are using for a scope. Is it parralax free at 100? In consistant head positioning behind a scope slightly out of focus could account for some of your group size. Your shooting seems pretty consistent however. I would try off a front rest instead of a bipod.

I would step away from the 250gr, and try either some 225, 300gr or the hornady 285gr match. I get great groups with the 225 ttsx and the 300gr berger from my edge (both in the .2-.3's) but when I tried the 250gr accubond I had groups running 1-1.3moa, easily 3-4 times the group size.

There is always the possibility that your rifle is a 1.5moa rifle. I have a savage LRPV in 22-250 that fires everything it likes into roughly 1moa, and loads it doesn't like into 2-3moa. Kinda disappointing when you hear all the stories of savage "accuracy".
 
LongBomber said:
I
I have a savage LRPV in 22-250 that fires everything it likes into roughly 1moa, and loads it doesn't like into 2-3moa. Kinda disappointing when you hear all the stories of savage "accuracy".
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People certainly do cherry pick their results for the internet. I might be guilty of this myself. It leads to unrealistic expectations unless people like yourself point this out. 2-3 MOA would be unfortunate.
 
I am using a Falcon Menace 5.5-25x50FFP scope. It has the side paralax adjustment and I believe I have it adjusted paralax free. I look away from the reticle and then back through it and move my head around and the cross hairs seem to stay where they are. I will be removing the bipod and shooting from a front bag next time i'm out.

I wont be going back out untill I get the 300's. I have tried two different 250's with two different powders with crapy results. I just got off the phone and ordered some 300 SMK's (500), Retumbo and H4831SC so we'll see what happens with that bullet/powder combo. I also still have the US869 that I can try with the 300's when they show up so 3 bullet/powder combo's to try soon.

PA
 
I and several of my friends with 338 lapuas find Retumbo, 215M primers, lapua brass and either 300 SMK or 250 Hornady HPBT match are the best combinations. TRG42, and GAP 338's.
 
I just got in my 300gn Match Kings and a pound of Retumbo and H4831SC. I have some work to do on the car but after that i'll be loading up some rounds and hitting the range either today or tomorrow depending on weather, it's supposed to rain off and on today. I have some H1000 and US869 left so i'll try some loads with that with the 300 grainers as well.

PA
 
Ok so back from the range again. I loaded up 35 rounds of Retumbo with 300gn SMK's. I shot two groups yesterday at 200yd but the weather was getting crapy so I called it quits after shooting the two groups of 5. I finished shooting the rest today, the weather was much better. I loaded up 5 fowlers (I I had cleaned the rifle) at 85.0gn. Than I loaded 5 rounds each at 85.0, 86.0 87.0 88.0 89.0 and 90.0. I still have to load up the rest at 91.0 92.0 93.0 and 94.0 which i'll do today and head back out.

When i'm at the range, the spot i'm shooting from is not square on the target. I'm shooting on an angle towards the target. For the group I shot at 90.0gn I moved my position to a more square on target position. Does this make a difference? Anyway enough blabing, here are the targets.

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Interesting - your groups at 200 yards are quite a bit better than your 100 yard groups. Your first two 200 yard groups are about an inch and a half in size, so that's about 3/4 MOA (nice shooting!). Yet your two 100 yard groups are an inch and an inch and a half (so 1.0 MOA and 1.5 MOA).

Was your 90 grain group at 200 yards (in which case, wow!!), or was it at 100?

I don't quite understand what you mean by being square to the target, but it probably doesn't matter much, so long as you have a comfortable, steady and stable shooting position.
 
I shot the first two groups at 200 yards because I thought the bullet would need the extra distance to stabilize. Then when I went back out the next day (today) I put the target up at 100 yards just to keep everything the same. But now I wonder if the extra 100 yards distance made a difference. The last group, the 90.0gr group was shot at 100 yards and is quite a bit better than any previous group shot.

What I mean by square to the target is that from my shooting position the 100 yard berm is to my left, not directly in front of me, so I was always shooting on an angle to the target. For the last group I moved over to my left on the firing line as far as I could to get "square" to the target or berm.

I'm going to load up 91.0, 92.0 and 93.0 now and try and get back out to the range before it get's to dark.
 
I have the exact same gun on order and have been doing a lot of looking and reading all over the net on loads for it. The most common and apparently the most accurate one I have found so far seems to be 92 grns of h-1000 pushing a 300 SMK and being lit with fed 215 magnum primer with a COAL of 3.720. Most people are seeing .5 MOA and under with this combo. Another thing I have heard is not to get too upset about 100 yrd grouping with the 338 lapua as it apparently doesn't really seem to stabalize till about 300 or so. I myself am not too sure about how that is possible but it has been said by people a whole heck of a lot smarter than I am. Hope this helps and I would definately like to know how you make out as I do have the same gun on the way. On a side note would you mind sending me a P.M. about your impressions of the gun? Hope to hear from you soon and good luck.

Bryan
 
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Good stuff ... looks like you might be getting somewhere now. I'd try some more at 88-90. maybe two sets for them each @ 100 and 200. Also, might want to try a bit more back from the lands, say .020 unless you are extermely sure of your COAL measurements.

BTW, don't worry much about the angle as long as you are consistant. A small angle won't change anything but make sure your rifle's cant stays pretty much the same.

Steve
 
Thanks Steve. I just got 15 more loaded up to finish off the spread from min to max with the retumbo. Just heading out to the range now (it's 5 mins away), i'll post some pics when I get back.

I want to try and get the smallest group before I start playing with the dist off the lands. Everything has been seated .010 off so far to date. This is the first bit of testing I have done with the 300's, I still have US869, H1000 and H4831SC to go..... wow that's alot of shooting :)

Be back soon...

PA
 
I cant help you with reading your targets as i cant read my own yet but I can pass on what has worked for me and my .338 Lapua.

Rifles are ATRS builds with Stiller actions and AICS stocks, Barrels are Rock Creek 27" & 30" length.

I am shooting at SeaLevel, and having good luck with H1000, 300 gr SMK, Fed Primer.

My chronograph is showing 2850 fps with 95gr of powder but i am getting pressure signs on the brass and the load has become compressed.

Powder & Velocity
88gr = 2635fps
89gr = 2680fps
90gr = 2720fps
91gr = 2780fps

My ideal load to date for group has been 92.8 gr H1000 (sorry my velocity information isn't at hand right now).

Loaded cartridge length is to fit AICS magazines so i am limited to 3.633".

I am getting consistent hits on steel out to 1215yds as long as i do my part.

I agree with others that shooting this rifle takes its toll and am currently fighting a slight flinch but find that taking video helps me with assessing my shooting position and making note of my flinches.

I have found some good .338 Lapua information at both SnipersHide Forum and LongRangeHunting Forum.

Best of luck with your load buildup!
 
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