Help: Powder throwers, how good is good enough?

Evil_Edie

Evil_Edie

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I recently got a turret press set up for loading .308 and I've got the Lee Perfect Powder measure on it.

Powder being used: IMR 4895 and 4064 (both stick type of fairly similar dimensions)

I've worked probably a few pounds of powder through it by now (the same pound or two run through several times) and i can't seem to get it to throw reliably. That is to say out of 10 throws i'll have 8 that are spot on the money, then 1 or 2 that are +/- 0.3 grains (Averaged) Lowest throw is usually -0.2 within the advertised range, but highest throws are up to +0.4 What frustrates me most is i'll start thinking this is working good now because it will give me the good throws in long strings then suddenly a bad throw or two, then it reverts to throwing spot on.

My goal ultimately is to load decent quality ammo at relatively high volume for semi autos. Not precision ammo. Not bulk blasting ammo. Middle of the road good practice ammo, and i'd like to not have to weigh every throw. Does anyone have any suggestions that might improve the consistency? What do you consider to be an acceptable variation in your charge weight, and how are your results on paper with that variation?
 
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If it’s not for accuracy then I wouldn’t worry too much about your variation. As long as you’re not close to max charge weight. I’d make sure it’s not a hot load and bulk load like that. I’ve done it. With a powder throw like that I’ve Always had similar results. Just try it on paper and see how they shoot!
 
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Are you saying the difference from a hi to a low is .7 g ???

Using Imr 4895 I am usually getting a high to low of .4 g .... I set it so my max charge is the high ... was thinking of trying 2 baffles at the same time

are you using a powder baffle ? .... even using different size baffles make a difference

home made powder baffle
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?95131-RCBS-Uniflow/page2 post 27
 
If you aren't sitting on a huge supply of either of those long stick powders, have you considered switching to something finer? A ball powder would meter much better, since you are in Vancouver and not subject to the massive temperature extremes we see on the prairies, you could get away with 748/BLC2/CFE223. There are finer stick powders than you have mentioned, but not all of them are the best choice for 308, these would be Benchmark and 8208XBR.
 
I am using the same powder measure for loading 270 with IMR 4350. I am getting =/- .2 grain variation on drops with the worst being .4 grain. I find it better when the hopper is more than 1/4 full. I am loading 50 grains, which is 1.6 grains below maximum and they shoot better than I can. good enough for the deer I go after.
 
Always some form of a compromise to accept at some point, when you want to speed things up. It would also seem possible, that maybe something you are doing in the process, is what is causing it, some little thing about the technique that is inconsistent or a foible with vibration on the press that needs sorting out. You can spend a lot of time and frustration on something like that, done that with shotshell presses. For rifles, I just found it easier to switch to powders that meter well. At that time I was doing 200 rds on a Sat nite and 200 more during the week, for weekend gopher shoots, and went to a ball powder, which cured the issue. I found that any longer stick powders, were something I just didn't have the patience to deal with, in a thrower. Still shot OK and killed lots of gophers.
 
Chargemaster can give you charges at ±0.1 grain every time even with the long stick powders. And if it throws a bad one, you see it on the live scale display before you pick up the charge in hand.
 
adamg said:
Chargemaster can give you charges at ±0.1 grain every time even with the long stick powders. And if it throws a bad one, you see it on the live scale display before you pick up the charge in hand.
Click to expand...

perhaps.. but this makes the turret press into a complex single station. Best option for accurate measure on a turret press is the use of powders that meter well. Ball powders are the most repeatable.
 
Can't make miracles with stick powder in a thrower. It's built like that. Try a ball powder or try being happy with +/- 0.4grn. With ball powder your ammos will be more temperature-sensitive, so maybe you'll want different loads for different seasons.
 
Evil_Edie said:
I recently got a turret press set up for loading .308 and I've got the Lee Perfect Powder measure on it.

Powder being used: IMR 4895 and 4064 (both stick type of fairly similar dimensions)

I've worked probably a few pounds of powder through it by now (the same pound or two run through several times) and i can't seem to get it to throw reliably. That is to say out of 10 throws i'll have 8 that are spot on the money, then 1 or 2 that are +/- 0.3 grains (Averaged) Lowest throw is usually -0.2 within the advertised range, but highest throws are up to +0.4 What frustrates me most is i'll start thinking this is working good now because it will give me the good throws in long strings then suddenly a bad throw or two, then it reverts to throwing spot on.

My goal ultimately is to load decent quality ammo at relatively high volume for semi autos. Not precision ammo. Not bulk blasting ammo. Middle of the road good practice ammo, and i'd like to not have to weigh every throw. Does anyone have any suggestions that might improve the consistency? What do you consider to be an acceptable variation in your charge weight, and how are your results on paper with that variation?
Click to expand...


Unless there's something really special about your 308, plus or minus a tenth of a grain won't make any difference accuracy/velocity wise. If you were loading for a 223 rem, right at max??????????
 
As someone else mentioned, definitely try a baffle. I'm using a Lee AutoDrum and haven't tried stick powders yet but I was finding significant variation depending on how full the hopper was with ball powders. Found a baffle design on Thingiverse, got a buddy to print it (cost like 25 cents in material) and it significantly reduced the fluctuations in thrown weights.

The one I used is here: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3369148
 
That kind of variation is normal for a powder thrower with those powders. And it would take a real good target rifle to be able to see the effect of that variation.

So carry on.

OR

Switch to a finer grain stick powder, like RL15.

Or switch to a ball powder like 748 or BLC2. A ball powder often throws 10 identical charges in a row.

I used to load match ammo on my Dillon. I used ball powder and the variation was plus or minus 1/10 of a grain, with most charges being dead on.
 
Ganderite said:
That kind of variation is normal for a powder thrower with those powders. And it would take a real good target rifle to be able to see the effect of that variation.

So carry on.

OR

Switch to a finer grain stick powder, like RL15.

Or switch to a ball powder like 748 or BLC2. A ball powder often throws 10 identical charges in a row.

I used to load match ammo on my Dillon. I used ball powder and the variation was plus or minus 1/10 of a grain, with most charges being dead on.
Click to expand...

Thanks neighbor. I am new to rifle loading, but pretty happy with my results , so far.
 
My 5 cents, now getting less than 0.2 grain variation using Benchmark, H335 or H322 for .308W. But it took a bit to get there. Step one use the same part of the hopper, that is keep adding powder to keep the level in the hopper reasonably the same, step 2 use consistent motion to operate the powder thrower. Not jerky incomplete ones. Smooth and consistent hand movements help a bunch.
 
dirtybarry said:
My 5 cents, now getting less than 0.2 grain variation using Benchmark, H335 or H322 for .308W. But it took a bit to get there. Step one use the same part of the hopper, that is keep adding powder to keep the level in the hopper reasonably the same, step 2 use consistent motion to operate the powder thrower. Not jerky incomplete ones. Smooth and consistent hand movements help a bunch.
Click to expand...

In case you didn't read the advice about a baffle in the powder hopper, I'll remind you.

Place the baffle appx where you get your most consistent throw, and fill the hopper above the baffle. When there is no longer powder above the baffle, fill it again. The baffle will give you a constant pressure on the powder column. Then, work on keeping your throws consistent. I find that tapping the throw arm a couple of times at the bottom will help keep things very consistent.

I don't shoot in matches these days, simply because my eyes, even with a decent scope, aren't up to the task. I seldom load the vast quantities that Ganderite does, so I weigh every charge of powder and only use the thrower to save time. I usually have my thrower set a few tenths of a grain light, then top it up to mean weight with a trickler, while the dish is on the scale. I have never gotten over being anal about consistent charges. I load up a maximum of 60 cartridges at a time, unless I'm loading for handguns. When I'm loading handgun cartridges I just use the powder throw and weigh appx one out of ten charges to make sure nothing has gone awry. The baffle really helps.

One other thing, seeing as you're new. If like most new reloaders, you will likely be purchasing your powder 1 pound at a time. If you can afford it, purchase an 8 pound keg, so that you are loading from the same lot. If you can't afford a keg, purchase a couple of pounds and if the lot numbers are different, mix them together so that you have a larger consistent lot. This will save you from a surprise, when you find the next canister of powder is slightly slower/faster than your last canister.

I also use magnum primers for everything. Many here cringe at the practice but it definitely helps to keep things consistent between temperature swings and should be used with BALL type powders for a clean consistent burn.
 
adamg said:
Chargemaster can give you charges at ±0.1 grain every time even with the long stick powders. And if it throws a bad one, you see it on the live scale display before you pick up the charge in hand.
Click to expand...

There are also YouTube videos showing fixes and reprogramming to make it both accurate and quick.

Just put powder through die in the turret, with a funnel. No need to remove from your shell holder, which i have the idea helps for consistency of seating and concentric/runout.
 
bearhunter said:
In case you didn't read the advice about a baffle in the powder hopper, I'll remind you.

Place the baffle appx where you get your most consistent throw, and fill the hopper above the baffle. When there is no longer powder above the baffle, fill it again. The baffle will give you a constant pressure on the powder column. Then, work on keeping your throws consistent. I find that tapping the throw arm a couple of times at the bottom will help keep things very consistent.

I don't shoot in matches these days, simply because my eyes, even with a decent scope, aren't up to the task. I seldom load the vast quantities that Ganderite does, so I weigh every charge of powder and only use the thrower to save time. I usually have my thrower set a few tenths of a grain light, then top it up to mean weight with a trickler, while the dish is on the scale. I have never gotten over being anal about consistent charges. I load up a maximum of 60 cartridges at a time, unless I'm loading for handguns. When I'm loading handgun cartridges I just use the powder throw and weigh appx one out of ten charges to make sure nothing has gone awry. The baffle really helps.

One other thing, seeing as you're new. If like most new reloaders, you will likely be purchasing your powder 1 pound at a time. If you can afford it, purchase an 8 pound keg, so that you are loading from the same lot. If you can't afford a keg, purchase a couple of pounds and if the lot numbers are different, mix them together so that you have a larger consistent lot. This will save you from a surprise, when you find the next canister of powder is slightly slower/faster than your last canister.

I also use magnum primers for everything. Many here cringe at the practice but it definitely helps to keep things consistent between temperature swings and should be used with BALL type powders for a clean consistent burn.
Click to expand...


Not that new, but the baffle idea is a good one and totally going to make one up now. I've loaded 10s of thousands of pistol and small rifle rounds but only about 600 of .308. Your points about tricklers and charge weights are well founded and I have also done exactly that but the few times I went out to try and do some proper testing the wind was so bad it was meaningless. Like enough wind to blow a loaded magazine off the bench. The only LR primers I've ever used are Federal 210M and still working on the first 1000. Recently the idea of doing some longer range precision shooting has come up in part because my sight has been improved so much and that rabbit hole just keeps getting deeper. But since graduation and gainful employment is a way off yet, it's all pie in the sky for now. Still lots of fun researching and gathering opinions though.
 
I ordered a couple of Prairie Dog baffles From Big Bike Parts.
They shipped from less than a mile from my home.

http://www.bigbikeparts.com/templates/product.aspx?ProductGuid=6-103&GroupGuid=2015
20191221-152334.jpg
 
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