Help with 577 Snider

spoc

spoc

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I picked this 577 Snider today and other than knowing the name of the rifle I really don't know anything else about it. Hopefully someone will be kind enough to help me identify the rifle. It has 1862 Snider on the side of the rifle and a crown and V.R. The barrel is approximately 19 3/4". My father used to have a full length version when I was a kid so I'm guessing someone cut this down. Any information I could get would be appreciated. Any idea what it would be worth?

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That is a Mark II* Snider, which is the last major model to still be converted from muzzleloaders. The next and last incarnation, the Mark III, was made of steel and built originally as a breachloader, not a converted muzzleloader. The version you have appears to be a cadet carbine. You will find that the gun shoots several feet high. It seems like they were made to be a belt buckle hold at 300 meters! They are really fun to shoot, I have been working on making brass for mine. The easiest way of getting ammo is loading your own using cut down 24 gauge brass shotshells. Once the brass is formed, you will likely not even need dies to reload for it. Black powder loads, lead bullets, lots of fun, lots of smoke! (and lots of cleaning!) BTW, I would value that piece between $400-$500, lower for mechanical issues, higher if special features/provenance.
 
Cadet Carbine was a uniquely Canadian beast made up from old Mark I* and all variants of the Mark II.

They served with Cadet Corps across Canada until at least the late 1920s, making them the longest-serving Sniders in the world.

Properly speaking, a Cadet carbine should have a BEAD for a front Sight, rather like an oversize Shotgun sight. This one appears to have been changed.

Handling characteristics and general appearance mimicked the Cavalry Carbine.

Nice part is that, following conversion, they tended not to be fired a lot, making them available generally with really decent bores. One would make a REALLY decent Moose gun out to 100 yards or so. Ammunition is standard .577" Snider, which was the very FIRST centrefire military cartridge in the world. Round used a 480-grain slug with 70 grains of RFG Number 2 powder; you can substitute FFg or FFFg, although I would back off 5 grains or so on the FFFg.

Barrels and actions are plain brown IRON. They are NOT Steel: Steel only came in with the Mark III.

A very nice little piece with a HUGE amount of history behind it.

Keeper for sure! A Snider should be the centrepiece of ANY military collection: it was, after all, the very FIRST.
 
Gabriel guitars, thank you very much for the information. This is my first foray into an antique firearm so I'm really excited to start the process of obtaining all the things I need to shoot it. Do you happen to know where I can get some of the 24 gauge brass or any of the other components?
 
smellie said:
Cadet Carbine was a uniquely Canadian beast made up from old Mark I* and all variants of the Mark II.

They served with Cadet Corps across Canada until at least the late 1920s, making them the longest-serving Sniders in the world.

Properly speaking, a Cadet carbine should have a BEAD for a front Sight, rather like an oversize Shotgun sight. This one appears to have been changed.

Handling characteristics and general appearance mimicked the Cavalry Carbine.

Nice part is that, following conversion, they tended not to be fired a lot, making them available generally with really decent bores. One would make a REALLY decent Moose gun out to 100 yards or so. Ammunition is standard .577" Snider, which was the very FIRST centrefire military cartridge in the world. Round used a 480-grain slug with 70 grains of RFG Number 2 powder; you can substitute FFg or FFFg, although I would back off 5 grains or so on the FFFg.

Barrels and actions are plain brown IRON. They are NOT Steel: Steel only came in with the Mark III.

A very nice little piece with a HUGE amount of history behind it.

Keeper for sure! A Snider should be the centrepiece of ANY military collection: it was, after all, the very FIRST.
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Thanks Smellie, I appreciate the information. I was really excited when the guy pulled it out of its case and showed it to me. I wasn't really sure what it was but I bought it anyway. I was thinking the same thing about the front sight, would that effect the value much? The previous owner wanted $250 so I guess I did ok regardless.
 
@ $250 you did well!

If you want to shoot that beast cheaply/easily, find some 24 gauge plastic hulls. I shoot my snider often with 24 gauge hulls trimmed back to around 2" (trim them until they chamber in your rifle), loaded with 70 grains of 2f powder. I've had great success using hornaday 58 cal round balls patched with a 50 cal patched lubed with bore butter.

Nice thing about the hornaday 58 call balls is they seem to be in stock in most gun shops that I frequent.

Nice score!!
 
Ballistic Products near Calgary (Dewinton, I believe) usually has them, but everyone seems to be out right now. I ordered 75 from Huntington's in the US, with no problems.
 
Tinman204 said:
@ $250 you did well!

If you want to shoot that beast cheaply/easily, find some 24 gauge plastic hulls. I shoot my snider often with 24 gauge hulls trimmed back to around 2" (trim them until they chamber in your rifle), loaded with 70 grains of 2f powder. I've had great success using hornaday 58 cal round balls patched with a 50 cal patched lubed with bore butter.

Nice thing about the hornaday 58 call balls is they seem to be in stock in most gun shops that I frequent.

Nice score!!
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Thanks Tinman,
I was lucky and was able to pickup everything that you listed today except for the 24 gauge hulls. I cant wait to try it out as soon as I can get the hulls.
 
I have an Egyptian Police model. It looks very similar to yours but in pretty rough condition. I use 24g plastic shot shell cut to 1 3/4".
I load about 45g of powder and a 250 grain .577 round ball. Mine is a smooth bore and has a nice group at 50 yards but at 100 I have no idea where the ball goes. I find that if I use more powder it tends to deform the brass base too much and I can't reload them.
 
You would probably have best lick with .590" to .600" round balls as that rifle will have very slow twist rifling, designed for shooting round ball. You will find brass in some interesting places. The 24 gauge brass is OK. I have a mix of turned brass and drawn brass. I shoot mine regularly with both conical bullets and round ball and find the round ball shoots the most consistently. I use only FG black powder, a card wad over the powder and the ball loaded on top and finish with a dab of black powder lube. I can never figure why folks here don't give their location! If we knew where you were you might get offers of help from Snider shooters who live in your neighbourhood. Just a thought.
 
I just wanted to thank everyone for all the information they have provided so far. I have some plastic 24 gauge hulls on the way now from Ballistic Products so I should be able to get the old girl operational shortly. I appreciate everyone telling me about how they load their Sniders as I am very new to black powder shooting. I think I will have to try source some of the .590 or .600 round balls as I dropped the .580 Hornady ball into it and it seemed like it is a bit undersized. I'll give it a shot though and see if it works when I get my hulls.
 
spoc said:
I just wanted to thank everyone for all the information they have provided so far. I have some plastic 24 gauge hulls on the way now from Ballistic Products so I should be able to get the old girl operational shortly. I appreciate everyone telling me about how they load their Sniders as I am very new to black powder shooting. I think I will have to try source some of the .590 or .600 round balls as I dropped the .580 Hornady ball into it and it seemed like it is a bit undersized. I'll give it a shot though and see if it works when I get my hulls.
Click to expand...

The 58 cal round ball I mentioned is undersized. That is why you patch it with a lubed patch, just like you would with a muzzle loader. I'm using traditions cotton 50 cal patches lubed with a dab of bore butter.

For loading the shells I use a 209 shot shell primer, 60-70 grains of FFG then a milk carton wad which is there simply to hold the powder against the primer. Next I take the round ball and stick it on top of the lubed patch and then rap the patch around the ball and I push it into the 24g hull. Last thing I do which may not be necessary is I take more bore butter and I fill the end of the case with the lube. The last step seems to keep fowling to a minimum and it also makes the rounds watertight for long term storage.
 
catnthehatt said:
Here's the bullet and re-formed 24 gauge brass I use

6 round fired at 100yards from the bench.
The flyers were operator error!

Cat
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That looks like very good accuracy. I am still waiting for my 24 gauge hulls but I did break down and try the 28 gauge shells with some 500gr bullets over 50grs of black powder. I just tried it to see if the gun would fire and if the action was ok, much to my surprise everything worked really well. I didnt try it for accuracy because I only brought a couple of rounds. This was the first time I've fired a black powder gun and now I'm completely hooked.
 
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