Help with high pressure loads.
- Thread starter Luis1
- Start date
There was another thread a while ago with a member having trouble with reloads and a Stag. I seem to recall it having to do with the amount of gas used to cycle the action, and the shoulder moving forward, not back. I might be wrong about that, but definitely a similar rifle. Blown out primers sounds familiar.
Last edited:
Check your bolt face, is the firing pin hole too large? It would explain the primer blow outs.
What brand is your bolt? I saw an AR10 do that before and it was fixed with a new bolt.
Can you post a pic of the cases with the blown primers? The primer came out or was pierced? Maybe I misunderstood what you meant.
Not sure about the rest of your issues, maybe a bad jug of powder that isn't actually 4895?
2700fps sounds too fast for a 168gr from an 18.5" semi, I would back down your loads.
H4895 is an excellent powder for semi auto rifles, I think there's something else going on.
What brand is your bolt? I saw an AR10 do that before and it was fixed with a new bolt.
Can you post a pic of the cases with the blown primers? The primer came out or was pierced? Maybe I misunderstood what you meant.
Not sure about the rest of your issues, maybe a bad jug of powder that isn't actually 4895?
2700fps sounds too fast for a 168gr from an 18.5" semi, I would back down your loads.
H4895 is an excellent powder for semi auto rifles, I think there's something else going on.
Last edited:
I was talking to a buddy of mine yesterday and he was an armourer in the military for a bunch of years, I told him everything in detail etc etc and he thinks that the rifle may be overgassed as well.
My firing pin hole looks right. The bolt is the factory stag one that comes with the rifle. The primer was blown out and not pierced, at least from the ones I recovered weren't pierced. I did find small pieces of primer anvil inside of the bolt which was weird.
I have read in the ar15 forums that guys who reload for ar10/308 Ar that, for example, LC 7.62 brass has a max load of 40 gr of h4895. So I think others are very right and that you need to start at definite min loads and work up or even start maybe a grain below min and work up. Just might be the round and different pieces of brass.
If there is anything that we/I can take away from this is:
I'm an idiot for continuing to shoot the rifle with that ammo
These stag 10s may be over gassed
The stag 10s are definitly robust and can take some amounts of over pressure
Last edited:
My experience with gas- operated semis is limited to shotguns, and that's limited to it either works or it doesn't with this load or that one. I do remember shooting a friends ex- Indian FN a lot of years ago, and I seem to recall that you had to dial a whatzit one way until the rifle didn't cycle properly, then go back the other way until it did.
Have you talked with the customer service/ tech support folks at Stag? They might be able to point you in the right direction. I doubt you're the first to have this problem.
Have you talked with the customer service/ tech support folks at Stag? They might be able to point you in the right direction. I doubt you're the first to have this problem.
Not sure what Stag's policy is but I wouldn't tell them you've run any handloads through it if you contact them. Most companies void warranty if you handload for them.
I'd have to shoot your rifle to be able to feel if it's overgassed but either way, an adjustable gas block definitely isn't going to hurt anything and will really let you tune the rifle for minimum recoil, maximum reliability, minimal wear on the action, and let you adjust it for every load you run through it.
Most guns come mildly to moderately overgassed, some are very overgassed.
It's relatively cheap so give it a shot, I added a Superlative adjustable gas block to my Modern Hunter in 6.5CM and it's very smooth now (was never harsh but it's better now).
- Location
- On a sand bar in the Atlantic Ocean.
1. Back off on the powder charges. As many have stated, gas guns don't like hot loads.
2. The chamber may not have much freebore. Check your neck length and trim to min spec. A short throat will spike pressures big time.
3. Clean the gun. Sometimes you can get a build up of carbon near the chamber that will boost pressures.
2. The chamber may not have much freebore. Check your neck length and trim to min spec. A short throat will spike pressures big time.
3. Clean the gun. Sometimes you can get a build up of carbon near the chamber that will boost pressures.
Last edited:
Thanks for all the help from this thread and all you humble people. I will be taking a serious look at what may be the issue this weekend, but I believe I have it narrowed down to I really screwed up on the loads lol and didn't realise it, my rifle may be overgassed/short chamber etc, and/or my rifle just may be damaged. I seriously doubt the latter is what's causing it.
What is your C.O.L for these loads? I'm curious if your distance to the lands using those ELDs is too short versus your 147gr plinkers. If you're near 2.81" C.O.L try a couple hundredths shorter, might help with the high pressures.
Your powder charge for H4895 is exactly within the range the Lee Reloading manual gives me. 41-43.5gr.
Now, here's a bit of a variation. My old Hodgdon book from 1992 calls for 38.0 - 40.0gr of H4895 when under 168gr pills. (7.62x51 match load data)
From the same book 308 Win commercial loadings are 38.5 - 42.0gr of H4895.
I think you have a seating depth issue, not a component issue. I could be out to lunch on this as well so don't hold me to it but it's my best guess with the info given.
Your powder charge for H4895 is exactly within the range the Lee Reloading manual gives me. 41-43.5gr.
Now, here's a bit of a variation. My old Hodgdon book from 1992 calls for 38.0 - 40.0gr of H4895 when under 168gr pills. (7.62x51 match load data)
From the same book 308 Win commercial loadings are 38.5 - 42.0gr of H4895.
I think you have a seating depth issue, not a component issue. I could be out to lunch on this as well so don't hold me to it but it's my best guess with the info given.
Also, I don't know if it is just the way the picture is, but your sized brass on the right appears to have an off-center neck. Is it just the picture? I'd like to roll that piece of brass on a flat surface and see if that neck is true or not...
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
The fact that this is happening with factory and it didn't used to indicates this is a firearm issue.
Once a very long time ago, I had a rifle that did exactly this. That rifle was used for cast bullets and had a severe leading issue.
That experience leads me to believe something is causing a pressure increase.
Clean and inspect the living hell out of the rifle and chamber, and fire no more handloads until you have resolved the factory rounds issue would be my advice.
Taking handloads out of it reduces the search area for the issue.
I will do this, I need to pick up a 308 chamber brush before I can finish though. Having said all of the above, the hornady tap ammo I put through it was the first factory rounds that have been fed to it since the first few boxes of ammo I put through the rifle. That was several hundred rounds ago.
I was also able to chrono the hornady tap ammo when I shot it last and if I remember correctly these were zipping pretty fast for an 18.5 inch barrel. Possible I could have gotten a bad batch? I wonder why my plinking loads didn't show any pressure sign increase though?
Thanks for the input!
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
A quick search for Hornady recalls shows no 308 listings: https://www.hornady.com/support/product-recalls/
My Modern Hunter hates Hornady Superformance. Some factory ammo is too hot for some semis. Not necessarily a rifle problem (I'm not ruling it out though).
Luis, if you're still coming out on Saturday we'll look through my service rifle data and make up some loads to try, starting low we'll see if we can figure this out. My M14 loads should work well in your rifle as well, H4895 under a 168 HPBT, if I recall correctly they're around 2650fps (need to check my logbook) from my 18.6 inch Krieger.
