Help with "new" Enfield - she lives!! Range Report!

Could you tell me which ones please? How does one tell? They all look like hollow point hunting cartridges to me. I know there's verdigris on two or three of them, and I cleaned those up with a brass wire brush. However I thought that was just cause they were old bullets that were just stored touching each other...
 
Removed the wood!

Well, that wasn't so difficult! I removed all the wood quite easily. The most difficult actually being the butt plate screws (I had to gouge the screws a little so my screwdriver could bite, and I had to use quite a bit of force!) The scariest was the tiny screw holding the trigger guard at the wrist. That screw looked like it had been 'eaten' before. However, it came out easily.
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The forend surprised me though, as all it was was this little ring with a hole to screw in! It slides freely up and down the barrel.

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Here're the grisly details of what's underneath the barrel...actually not too bad at all! Dunno what's all that white stuff, but it crumbles easily. The rust looks bad, but its all surface stuff. I bet I can just steel wool that away.
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The buttstock was quite easily taken out. I used small sharp flathead bit and my ratchet with a couple of extensions. A fair bit of force was required to turn the screw, the ratchet made it easy. The screw could not be removed completely from the buttstock. No idea why.
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The rear sight concerns me. There seems to be no way to remove it and it appears to be welded to the barrel. There's a tiny screw under the lift-up piece, but I doubt that that holds the sight in. Even if it did, the sight seems like its slid onto the tube...no way to remove.
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Here's a closeup of the trigger/sear area. I don't think I want to remove that screw there...maybe just soak the whole thing in evaporust or something. The rust you see there is just about the worst of the lot.

Tomorrow I'll pop over the Cnd tire and get a bottle of evaporust and start soaking all the metal. Then comes the wood stripping. I wish I could take a pix of the rifling, but I couldn't figure out how to. The inside of the bore looks really clean and shiny to me, with all the rifling looking sharp!:D
 
About the ammo you got, does all of it have soft point bullets? They are a mix of commercial ammo and military ammo. The Military brass has the larger primer (called a berden primer) has the fewer head stamps, and is corrosive. If it has a soft point, I would guess that its military ammo that was converted from full metal jacket military ball to soft point hunting ammo by removing a portion of the copper jacket at the tip of the bullet and reshaping the lead. This ammo is NOT good to shoot as the military ball ammo has an exposed lead base, so removing the copper at the tip basically creates a lead filled copper tube. This has been know to make the gun go boom as the lead melts out, leaving just the copper tube in the bore, then when the next round is fired, BOOM. What are the headstamps on this ammo? I will guess by the pics it has a "K" followed by a year, with a "7" stamped in the opposite of the primer. If so, this would be British manufactured Mk7 ball ammo made by the Kynoch (spelling?) factory. It is corrosive.

I am not sure by the pics, but the other ammo is stamped DOMINION .303. This is actual commercial hunting ammo not re manufactured surplus and should be safe to shoot. The primers are the smaller ones (called boxxer primers) and are re loadable if you reload ammo. These are probably not corrosive.
 
It's a good thing this gun was given to you. I have to ask tho, how is the Cooey?

(Actually it isn't really that bad, I have seen Savage 1899s and Win 1894s in FAR worse shape. After CLEANING they turned out to shoot/function just fine.)

I wouldn't mind having a project like this at all, but I wouldn't give a dime for it.
 
About the ammo you got, does all of it have soft point bullets? They are a mix of commercial ammo and military ammo. The Military brass has the larger primer (called a berden primer) has the fewer head stamps, and is corrosive. If it has a soft point, I would guess that its military ammo that was converted from full metal jacket military ball to soft point hunting ammo by removing a portion of the copper jacket at the tip of the bullet and reshaping the lead. This ammo is NOT good to shoot as the military ball ammo has an exposed lead base, so removing the copper at the tip basically creates a lead filled copper tube. This has been know to make the gun go boom as the lead melts out, leaving just the copper tube in the bore, then when the next round is fired, BOOM. What are the headstamps on this ammo? I will guess by the pics it has a "K" followed by a year, with a "7" stamped in the opposite of the primer. If so, this would be British manufactured Mk7 ball ammo made by the Kynoch (spelling?) factory. It is corrosive.

I am not sure by the pics, but the other ammo is stamped DOMINION .303. This is actual commercial hunting ammo not re manufactured surplus and should be safe to shoot. The primers are the smaller ones (called boxxer primers) and are re loadable if you reload ammo. These are probably not corrosive.

You're right. A few of them say Dominion 303, but more of them say nothing, but K on on end, and 99. They do all have soft points though. Oh well, throw it away then, or maybe make them into keepsakes or whatnot eh :(

Thanks for the explanation between the ammo types. I'll know what to look for from now on.

Hook said:
It's a good thing this gun was given to you. I have to ask tho, how is the Cooey? (Actually it isn't really that bad, I have seen Savage 1899s and Win 1894s in FAR worse shape. After CLEANING they turned out to shoot/function just fine.) I wouldn't mind having a project like this at all, but I wouldn't give a dime for it.

Yes, I wouldn't have paid for it either. In fact, prior to this gun being given to me, I would never have thought about getting an Enfield! I'm fairly new to the shooting world (can't you tell? :D) and I only own 22s. I did go hunting before with a borrowed rifle and that's how I got hooked into shooting. I was actually going to get an SKS for my first centrefire. Then this came along.

I actually told a buddy I like old things. I've lovingly restored a 74 VW bus and drive an 84 Merc daily. I just like old stuff :rolleyes: My wife just commented that "I can't sit still and always like to fix things". That's actually why I really like the Enfield I think. Its simple, basic and I think its going to work great (and look OK, I guess) once I'm through with it.

As for the Cooey, well, whilst rusty on the outside, the inside cleaned up really easily. However, I could not get it to fire at the range. I cleaned up the bolt, found just ONE video on Youtube on how to take it apart and have already done so. I'll try it at the range again and see if it fires the next time I go. I think the firing pin is just not hitting hard enough. Well... yet another project. :D
 
I don't see any rust problems there that can't be taken care of with a bit of FINE or EXTRA FINE (preferred) steel wool and some oil and a goodly slosh of elbow-grease.

Nickel fouling is not too often a real problem with Lee-Enfields,l as it tended to manifest itself at muzzle velocities above what the .303 generally attains. The Americans had a LOT of trouble with it, but their original cupronickel-jacketed .30-'06 round left the muzzle at 2700 or so. Generally, the quickest way to detech it is to run a dry patch through the bore from breech to muzzle. If it catches or tries to stick just behind the muzzle, you likely have nickel fouling. Nickel fouling largely disappeared when the jacket material was changed to gilding-metal (mainly copper with a tiny bit of tin) or to gilding-metal-plated mild steel and it will show up again only if old ammo with cupronickel-jacketed bullets (look like steel but don't rust) is used in the critter.

You can tell your lovely, intelligent daughter (any girl who is on our side MUST be lovely and intelligent) that yes, indeed, this rifle served for at least 3 years during the Second World War. It is a REAL war relic and YOU, her very own Daddy, are restoring it to use.

Come to think on it, the rifle is pretty complete. You are missing a few smaller parts for a complete restoration to what it was like when it was built. You will need a rear-sight protector and its screw, generally $5 or less at a gun show and there MUST be somebody willing to help. You will need a set of handguards (front and rear) and an original forestock; these are the expensive parts. You will also need a midele barrelband, worth 5 to 10 bucks at most, and you will need a nose-cap (has the bayonet stud and boss as a part of it, some also held the stacking swivel; you can get away with one with no stacking swivel because yours is a late-production rifle)..... which MIGHT be worth $15, although I have seen them cheaper (by far). That will put her back to 'issue'. A proper Pattern 1908-type sling MIGHT set you back 10 bucks.

A glass-bedding job (and checking/repairing The Damned Crack), allied with floating the barrel (a five-dollar bill should pass between the barrel and the stock from the forward end of the chamber to the Inner Band reinforce, then from the front of the Inner Band to about an inch rear of the muzzle) and she should shoot.

The Kynoch ammo is corrosive. A lot of it was surplus military ammo with the bullets replaced, or over-runs from military production with sporting bullets seated and crimped in/on. But the primers are corrosive. Anything with DI or DCCo or DOMINION on it is NOT corrosive and it is NOT mercuric-primed and it was good brass for reloading. Anything with that BIG cap is corrosive, no matter who made it.

Then, of course, you will need a proper Pattern 1907 Mark I bayonet for the critter. There is just NUTHIN' that looks as utterly BRUTAL as an SMLE with its bayonet attached. This was the standard rifle for the whole British Empire during the Great War and millions were made and used during the Second World War, even though the type had been officially supplanted by the Number 4. They had factories that COULD make the SMLE and they needed rifles desperately, so they made the older type and they USED them, too. The North African campaign, for example, was fought almost exclusively with the older rifle. Check out the existing photographs: YOUR RIFLE just could be in some of them.

Brake-Kleen is the best stuff ever invented for removing old oils and solvent remnants from old wood. And it won't hurt the wood, either.

Don't worry about taking off the rear sight; they can be more than a bit miserable to remove and then tricky to re-instal. Just clean it up and give it a light coat of oil: wipe-on, wipe-off.

Hope this helps.
 
Just thought I'd pop in to say that I have finished steel wooling the barrel and receiver and WOW, it looks like a new gun already!! I bought the evaporust, but don't think I even need it now! Too tired now, but will post pictures tomorrow. Thanks for the tips and vote of confidence folks! I would never have done this much without your cheering me on!!:D
 
steel wool and CLP can turn a gross looking heap into a pretty fine gun pretty quick, I just finished a cleaning on a k43 that was a pretty green/orange when I started..she looks almost new now
 
The "almost new" barrel

Here're some of the highlights of my steel wool effort. There were some really tight areas where I used a dremel and steel brush to get at, but these were mostly inside the receiver area where I couldn't get my fingers in. Here's the rear sight:

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And the front sight, which had the numbers 030 stamped on them which I could not see before:

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Gosh, maybe if I keep rubbing other places, I might see the next winning 6/49 numbers!!

Maybe you remember this area, no more rust now...can't get rid of the pitting, but the colour has turned into a nice dark grey.

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I could probably clean out that back edge there a little more...but my fingers were already so sore...:rolleyes: Tonight, I'll try to clean up that area where the trigger and magazine-release engage. Looks just about the right size for a 22 cal bore brush...hmmm, attached to my dremel. :rolleyes:

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I like this part. At first I thought that this was just an indentation in the barrel. Then I cleaned it up and its really a hole!! I sure hope its supposed to be there, cos I can imagine smoke and sparks coming out of this hole when a bullet is struck!! BTW, that all there is pitting that I can't do anything about. There's no more rust though.
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The barrel proper has spots all over where the rust has not eaten through to pits, but has still discoloured the barrel. I guess I can't do anything about all those areas. I guess I can live with those. There are also areas where I don't see any blueing at all...looks just like bare steel. Again, no biggie if I kept it gunzilla'd I guess ;)

I really like the way the sights look now, but truth be told, I still can't easily move the sight up and down using the thumbwheel. I find I need to unscrew that screw you see there, and then move it to where I want it. Is this how its supposed to work? And Smellie, that rear sight protector, what does it screw to? Well, I suppose I will figure it out when I find one. ;)

And yes, my lovely, intelligent daughter (you were right on both counts) was quite thrilled to hear that this is an actual WW2 relic. She can't wait to fire it. :p

I checked tradex and they have the sling ($10), sight protector ($6.75) and nosecap ($15.97). No mention of handguards and middle barrel band.

I might probably try to get these pieces slowly off the EE first. After all, my first aim was to make this gun serviceable for hunting. I look upon this just like I look at the restoration of my bus. Get it running and enjoy whilst perfecting it. :D
 
marstar will have replacement wood in 2 months or so
you can get alot of the metal bits from them too, you'll need a few goodies

nose cap + front and back screw
front band + screw and sling thingy
plunger thing + spring (it puts upwards pressure on the barrel)
rear sight protector + screw and nut

you can get forewood out of england of ebay too, i just picked up one that had never been on a rifle before for about 70$

-T
 
Hey OEM:
You sir are doing a noble thing breathing new life into an old war horse! :dancingbanana: You'll learn a ton and create an heirloom for your daughter. Even if it doesn't work out to be a high grade shooter it's still a VERY cool wall hanger if she wanted to do so, long after you're gone. It doesn't have to be a sniper to still be a hunter :D I've cleaned up a few and they often turn out much better than first anticipated. You won't regret it. Thank you for saving a bit of history!
By the way ............ I like all the great pictures, makes for a good read! Especially the before & after shots. COOL
 
May I suggest going to www.skennerton.com and purchasing S.A.I.S No.1. (Small Arms Identification Series)
.303 Rifle, No1, SMLE
Marks III and III*

There is a Canadian office and the price is only around $12.
This booklet (8x10) will give you a potted history and more importantly, an excellent exploded parts diagram with a parts listing and all the accessories
If you send in a parts order, and miss one screw, you will STILL have to pay shipping and handling on that single screw!

Oh, by the way, you can remove the buttstock bolt if you want to, just use a something to punch it out. Its only held in by the wood swelling around it.
 
The saga continues!

Thanks for the encouragement folks! Kernalvax, I will be looking out for the two handguards that I need (unless they appear on the EE first!) I can see their function now...to prevent sweaty (or bloodied?) palms from rusting out the barrel!:eek:

Boltonscouter, you're absolutely right: This is beginnning to look like something I could hang on the wall...when I'm 99 and can't hunt anymore!:D Glad you liked the pictures...there's more to come! Nothing like pictures to record a little bit of history and my small part in preserving some of it. :) Louthepoo, I am going at it full-speed ahead! Actually your post of one of your excellent restoration jobs was one of those that inspired me. The rifle you restored for the other member was really nice.

John Sukey, for sure I am going to be looking for that book. And thanks to you, my buttstock bolt is out. One solid whack with the hammer and it popped out. I wouldn't have dared to try if you didn't say it was ok to do so. So now, that bolt too got the full steel wool gunzilla treatment.

Smellie, took your advice and went at the stock, first with solvent, and then with Brake Kleen. That's why I said 99 years just now. I must've shortened my life by at least 12 months, breathing in all those fumes!!:eek: Still the results are worth it! Check out the progression:

1. I used an old boot tray that I'm certain my wife would not miss. Soaked the steel wool in solvent, and scrubbed like hell.
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2. More and more scrubbing and some clear wood is beginning to show!
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3. Same goes with the buttstock (hate that little wood plug!)
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4. I can assure you, it was hard work!!
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5. But the results are showing!! Look at this...wipe away excess solvent and, spray with Brake Kleen and...
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Bear in mind...this wood was almost black before.
6. Now I gotta fix The Damned Crack as Smellie calls it! I thought of using wood glue. Thoughts anyone?
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Here are some random shots of the wood.
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The better side of the buttstock...
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And finally, the inside of the forestock has an "H" inside a "house" symbol. Any idea what this means?
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That's it for tonight folks! FYI, it was my daughter who likes guns that took the photos whilst my hands were dripping with solvent and all the other chemicals. Poor dear got a headache soon after. :redface:

Next comes the part I am really dreading...the bedding of the barrel. Is this really necessary? I almost feel like throwing it all together and shooting it already...we're close!!:dancingbanana:
 
Since it is just a sporter stock, I would not really spend the time bedding it. When you get a full length stock, then tnats when you have to worry about proper bedding. It looks good, and its fun and rewarding to see the work you do yourself. You said you are going to a full military restore? just for information, it should look like this.

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The stock is made up of four components. The butt stock, fore end, the upper hand guard and the lower hand guard. the butt stock you have has been altered so you will need another butt stock, full fore-end and the two hand guards. Along with the needed hardware. I am sure if you posted an ad on the EE, someone might have a set they might be willing to sell you. I am working on one on and off and the parts I got were all sold to me from another CGN member from his own supply.

Edit: Just to be clear, the pic above is one of the web, I wish it were mine.
 
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Main reason for all that wood is that the British Army didn't have enough money for machine-guns before World War I..... so every man in the Army was trained to put out 15 aimed shots a minute, with 100% hits on a man-sized target at 200 yards. NOT easy. I did it once, don't think I could do it again (too shaky). When you fire any rifle that fast, it gets really hot: hot enough that you can give yourself at least a second-degree burn just from touching it.

But isn't that just a BEAUTIFUL picture of what a completed restoration looks like? When the bayonet goes on, it adds another 17-1/2 inches of steel to the muzzle. Neatest crowd-control device ever invented: nobody in their right mind would want to face 40 or 50 or a couple of hundred guys armed like that. A riot could be broken up without firing a single round and with nobody getting hurt, just from the intimidation factor alone.

Your wood is good walnut, of course. You will find The Damned Crack at the rear end of your forearm, right at that thin bit of wood where the trigger comes up to the sear. They nearly all used to crack right there. Hose it out with a swish of Brake-Kleen, the glue it with any really decent glue. I use Acra-Glas but any good epoxy will do the job. So will ordinary, old-fashioned wood glue, for that matter. Clamp it for a day after you glue it. There is another location where these crack, just forward of the magazine hole. Not too often, but you sometimes find one there. Same treatment, of course.

Your daughter might be only 9, but it is obvious that she knows more about digital cameras than I do! Good photos of a work-in-progress.
 
If the bore is still dirty and your elbows are running out of grease, you could investigate and electronic bore cleaner. You can buy them at places like WSS, or you can make your own out of bits and pieces for next to nothing. If you google or look on Surplusrifle.com you will find plans and I think there is a thread here on gunnutz somewhere.
 
You know, that truly is a beauty! However, I don't think I can restore to this condition, simply because my forestock is not even that long. And even my buttstock is different. If I were to go for a full restore, it would mean all new wood! I might do it still, one day. But for now, I'm satisfied to get it as close to original as I can. Thanks for the thought though...this is what I'm aiming for.

Since it is just a sporter stock, I would not really spend the time bedding it. When you get a full length stock, then tnats when you have to worry about proper bedding. It looks good, and its fun and rewarding to see the work you do yourself. You said you are going to a full military restore? just for information, it should look like this.

image002.jpg


The stock is made up of four components. The butt stock, fore end, the upper hand guard and the lower hand guard. the butt stock you have has been altered so you will need another butt stock, full fore-end and the two hand guards. Along with the needed hardware. I am sure if you posted an ad on the EE, someone might have a set they might be willing to sell you. I am working on one on and off and the parts I got were all sold to me from another CGN member from his own supply.

Edit: Just to be clear, the pic above is one of the web, I wish it were mine.
 
You know, that truly is a beauty! However, I don't think I can restore to this condition, simply because my forestock is not even that long. And even my buttstock is different. If I were to go for a full restore, it would mean all new wood! I might do it still, one day. But for now, I'm satisfied to get it as close to original as I can. Thanks for the thought though...this is what I'm aiming for.

Like mentioned, Marstar is getting in a Metric S**t ton of enfield stock sets from over seas. I think Both used and new old stock. I would imagine their will be some hardware sets in their as well. Their is both No.1 stock sets (what you need) and sets for the No.4 rifle. I plan on getting a few of each.
 
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