High end rifles purchased by newbie shooters.....good idea or bad?

I'm in the group of "Buy once, Cry Once"
I would rather buy or start out with something of good quality. In shooting for example, why start into precision shooting with a cheap rifle and/or scope combination, and quickly become frustrated that you can't shoot the way you want due to the equipment. You wouldn't see your own potential when the equipment won't allow you to do it.
Another valid point brought up is good stuff will hold its value better if you decide that precision shooting isn't your thing and you decide to sell.

Example, a couple of winters ago, I wanted to try shooting winter league handgun shooting. So I bought a Pardini SP, I shot it, and shot it fairly well if I do say so myself, but after one season I decided it wasn't my thing, and I resold the Pardini for more than I had purchased it for brand new. (new prices had climbed, as they do with most high end items)

I don't think its fair to compare buying a high end rifle/scope combo for starting out shooting to buying a high end sports car to start driving. A good rifle is no "faster" or more dangerous than a cheaper rifle. Inexperience on the shooting bench isn't going to change the safety outcome of your day between using a cheap rifle and an expensive one.
 
I believe you should always buy the BEST YOU CAN AFFORD. If all you can afford is a savage or a remington thats ok, but if you have the money to go high end, like a cooper, hs precision etc. I think you should go high end.
 
AWOL said:
I golf with lots of guys who own Ping or Callaway and they shoot 100+. They don't care but at very least, they can't blame the equipment. I say "buy once, cry once". I aim to get the best bang for my bucks but try to never compromise quality for saving money.
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slvdout said:
I disagree with this analogy.. High end blade irons are way less forgiving to hit that some thing with a cavity back that's deigned for amateurs. In this case having the best clubs designed for a pro would actually be detrimental to your game.
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He didn't say they were PING or CALLAWAY "PRO" clubs... both companies make high end clubs for high handicappers too...
 
Quit talking sense, this is the internet. Jeez.


Mystic Precision said:
I have breezed through most of the posts and it was interesting to me how shooters I know SHOOT and compete suggest any newbie consider ALL the parts of the shooting process which include rifle, optics, and feeding it.

If the goal is to be good at any form of precision shooting, SHOOTING will be necessary. That means reloading and burning up lots of components including barrels.

As shooters, we have such a huge range of great rifles that can produce sub MOA with little work. In fact, we now have factory rifles that can approach 1/2 min AVERAGE even at longer distances. These can cost as little as $1K.

So the biggest question is what is the ENTIRE budget including the rifle, optics AND shooting.

At $1.00 to 1.50 per bang for F class competitive 308 ammo and the need to shoot a few thousand rds a season to get proficient, running costs approaching $4K per season is not out of the question these days. And that doesn't include travel, matches, cleaning and support supplies, replacing worn parts.

If the newbie can afford a $5K rig, $2.5K optic and then afford the $2 to 5K it takes to feed it, AWESOME. But most of the shooters I have met and helped run out of gas after buying the rig. Some even complain about the costs in reloading gear which is peanuts over the lifespan of the shooter.

a 1/2 min rifle whether it costs $700 or $7000 is still a 1/2 min rifle. Way too many shooters forget that the target doesn't care how much it costs to launch that bullet.

My recommendation to ANY new shooter is to work back from how proficient they want to be, to what they can afford to shoot over the year(s) it will take to get proficient, THEN to the platform(s) that can help them on their progress.

Chat with top competitive precision shooters and they likely will focus on needs to improve consistency and wind reading. The highest dollar whatever only enters the mix if it will actually do something to help their end result.

Also, many top dollar custom actions require MORE skill to maintain then those "lesser" actions suited to the average user.

Any shooter that wants to get good at this sport will be spending ALOT of money. The smart move is to spend it on things that help improve skill.

YMMV
Jerry
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At least if you buy cheap you can always blame the rifle and optics for your schitty shooting. Buy a TRG or a Coyote and the blame falls squarely on your own shoulders haha.
 
swissinn said:
At least if you buy cheap you can always blame the rifle and optics for your schitty shooting. Buy a TRG or a Coyote and the blame falls squarely on your own shoulders haha.
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There is good value and there is junk. For me, good value is performance at a reasonable price point (didn't say it would be little money). Junk is stuff that doesn't work as intended regardless of the cost - high or low.

There is a 3 times difference in costs in the 3 common scope brands used in F class shooting. Does the most expensive provide 3 times the performance?

There is a 3 to 5 times difference in action costs used in F class. Do only the most expensive receivers win? Are the most expensive receivers the best when conditions get very dirty?

Too often, the cost of an item is used to predict its performance. If it cost more, it must be better. That is not always the case. Certainly not in the firearms industry.

I judge the gear by its performance as it applies to my needs as a competitive shooter. Some of my favorite stuff doesn't cost much. Some of it is the most expensive. Good value cause it does what I want and need.

Use gear that works for the goals and needs of your sport. What it costs, it costs but don't say something is "best" simply because you spent a small fortune to buy it.

YMMV,

Jerry
 
The guns you mention may be high-end within their classification, but they are not the most precise you can buy. Furthermore, they are not great calibers for learning precision shooting. Quality pieces of kit, for sure but poor choices for much competitive shooting.

Wanna do it right?:

1) buy a bolt actioned 22 and learn shooting fundamentals
2) buy a bolt actioned 223 and learn centerfire shooting fundamentals
3) learn to reload
4) make/find/buy a 6BR and bring it all together into a one-hole venture.
 
As has been pointed out there is a lot more to this activity than just the firearm. If you're getting into it in any way you will have a lot of money to spend on secure storage, ammo, club memberships, reference material, instruction, event fees, maintenance and god forbid reloading. Figure out your budget and spend accordingly. My suggestion is to buy quality but most importantly get some skin in the game and start shooting.
 
swissinn said:
At least if you buy cheap you can always blame the rifle and optics for your schitty shooting. Buy a TRG or a Coyote and the blame falls squarely on your own shoulders haha.
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I totally agree. Its one factor in the equation that you don't need to worry about anymore.
 
paperslayer said:
The guns you mention may be high-end within their classification, but they are not the most precise you can buy. Furthermore, they are not great calibers for learning precision shooting. Quality pieces of kit, for sure but poor choices for much competitive shooting.

Wanna do it right?:

1) buy a bolt actioned 22 and learn shooting fundamentals
2) buy a bolt actioned 223 and learn centerfire shooting fundamentals
3) learn to reload
4) make/find/buy a 6BR and bring it all together into a one-hole venture.
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Ummmm...... this may be a good idea for someone new to firearme, but has really nothing to do with this thread given what the OP wrote in his initial question.

I see quite a few people in this thread thinking that this is someones first rifle purchase ever, which is simply not the case set out by the OP. (not picking on you, just see a lot of people confusing the details of the post)

sylencer said:
So the debate is whether newbies should go out and buy a high end precision rifle (something like I don't know, a TRG or Coyote we'll say) or if they should buy something like a Savage or a Remington for their first rifle. Before we continue I want to make it clear that we are talking about new to precision shooting, not to shooting in general.
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While not exactly a direct comparison, I use to see this stuff all the time when I drag raced. Guys would show up with their high dollar sports cars thinking that they held some kind of "decisive edge" - sort of like guys here who own Nemesis rifles. ;) They would brag their car up and quote all the factory specs and BS printed in magazines and then it was time for them to take their pride and joy to the starting line where they'd promptly make themselves look like a 2-pump chump because they didn't have a clue what their car could do with a skilled driver behind the wheel.

This isn't really much different.
 
2bad4u2 said:
While not exactly a direct comparison, I use to see this stuff all the time when I drag raced. Guys would show up with their high dollar sports cars thinking that they held some kind of "decisive edge" - sort of like guys here who own Nemesis rifles. ;) They would brag their car up and quote all the factory specs and BS printed in magazines and then it was time for them to take their pride and joy to the starting line where they'd promptly make themselves look like a 2-pump chump because they didn't have a clue what their car could do with a skilled driver behind the wheel.

This isn't really much different.
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here we are talking about a person with firearms experience taking up precision, Your analogy would work if it was a guy already racing at the track in his street car decides to go and get a drag car, not some guy of the street goint to the track for the first time in his sports/exotic/supercar and thinks he knows everything with no experience at all.

I have also drag raced and been into cars for years, IMO what that sport shares with shooting is a lot of old opinionated people who stick together in looking down upon new people to the sport. You have to learn the same way they did years ago with budget equipment and work your way up to the top, If you show up with a high dollar build from the start you won't get their approval no matter how good you are. To them in their eyes you cheated the system and will never be an equal even if your ability is well above theirs.
 
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Brian46 said:
here we are talking about a person with firearms experience taking up precision, Your analogy would work if it was a guy already racing at the track in his street car decides to go and get a drag car, not some guy of the street goint to the track for the first time in his sports/exotic/supercar and thinks he knows everything with no experience at all.

I have also drag raced and been into cars for years, IMO what that sport shares with shooting is a lot of old opinionated people who stick together in looking down upon new people to the sport. You have to learn the same way they did years ago with budget equipment and work your way up to the top, If you show up with a high dollar build from the start you won't get their approval no matter how good you are. To them in their eyes you cheated the system and will never be an equal even if your ability is well above theirs.
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Yup, there's a bit of that in racing. However, when someone has actual talent, everyone is quick to notice. When you start winning rounds, people will respect your ability. If you did drag race as you say you have, you would know full well that bracket racing (unlike class racing) has absolutely NOTHING to do with the speed of the car and that the skills of the driver and the consistency of the actual car itself to run repeatable elapsed times does.

That's a lot like shooting don't you think? A great shooter with adequate and consistent equipment can do far better than an beginner or average shooter can achieve with the best money can buy.

The track and the range are no different. Lots of guys show up with their high dollar gear, get schooled by a guy shooting a basic varmint rifle, and never show up at a match again.

Personally, I could care less what anyone else buys. I'm more concerned with what I enjoy doing.

I think there are a ton of potential deals to be made on the EE right now from new guys buying high end gear and ditching it a short time afterwards. As far as I'm concerned, they're the best thing that has happened to the used rifle market.
 
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2bad4u2 said:
Yup, there's a bit of that in racing. However, when someone has actual talent, everyone is quick to notice. When you start winning rounds, people will respect your ability. If you did drag race as you say you have, you would know full well that bracket racing (unlike class racing) has absolutely NOTHING to do with the speed of the car and that the skills of the driver and the consistency of the actual car itself to run repeatable elapsed times does.

That's a lot like shooting don't you think? A great shooter with adequate and consistent equipment can do far better than an beginner or average shooter can achieve with the best money can buy.

The track and the range are no different. Lots of guys show up with their high dollar gear, get schooled by a guy shooting a basic varmint rifle, and never show up at a match again.

Personally, I could care less what anyone else buys. I'm more concerned with what I enjoy doing.

I think there are a ton of potential deals to be made on the EE right now from new guys buying high end gear and ditching it a short time afterwards. As far as I'm concerned, they're the best thing that has happened to the used rifle market.
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I stopped bracket racing/never really got in to it because of the old guys, they don't recognise talent from anyone new ever from my experience, they call you a cheater and have tech go through your car for hours with a fine tooth comb at each event because they have become friends with the officials. Yet I have seen these old guys go to the extent of having new iron heads cast with all the old markings and an aftermarket port design inside them just to cheat in their class.

It is a very biased sport from what I have seen locally unless you "earn" your place in the minds of the old "fudds", Certain new people will fit in, but you have to allow yourself to get brainwashed by the old guys or you are quickly cast out.

I just race heads up/grudge now, pays better and I don't have to listen to track "politics".

Shooting is not much different from my experience, people on here have voiced their opinion before of how I started out in precision with a 338 Lapua, do I care? not the slightest
 
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