High Speed Steel lathe tooling kits

so what advantage are you trying to provide over regular hss blanks that you shape yourself

what are the tool holders made from
 
broncoo said:
so what advantage are you trying to provide over regular hss blanks that you shape yourself

what are the tool holders made from
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For $12/insert you get 3 perfectly ground cutting surfaces. For me its a no brainer. According to the website the holders are 4140
 
No offense, Bob, but any machine shop supply place, in Canada, will have tooling blanks, carbide tooling and carbide inserts. Busy Bee, for example. I think Princess Auto does too.
"...it can't be sharpened..." Who told you that? Does require a proper wheel though. Inserts you just turn.
 
The grinding wheels for sharpening carbide bits, are a bit pricey, but like sunray pointed out, they can be sharpened. Bob may have been refering to the hobby machinist that may not have the proper grinding wheel.

For the most part I prefer using HSS the bits. They are pretty versatile, and probably all the hobby gunsmith would need.
 
Bob Pastor said:
Because HSS actually cuts the metal, even at low speeds and carbide actually plastisizes the metal in front of the cutter. You can not cut metal at low speeds with carbide and get a very good finish. Carbide needs to be run way above the surface speeds HSS can be used at. Plus, when carbide chips or cracks, it can't be sharpened. You just lost a very expensive insert.

The average guy, working in his home shop, will never be able to use the advantage carbide will give him . HSS will do it all.

Bob
Click to expand...

Sorry Bob, but that carbide information is pure Puckey, of the bovine variety.

If you buy negative rake, coated inserts, and avoid all the others, it's still only true in some of the cases.

There are carbide tool inserts available in about every edge type you can imagine, then some. Sharp edges are not uncommon any more.

Spend some time in a Carbide tool supplier's catalog and try some of the varieties out, before you repeat the old information. It was true 25 years ago, but it isn't anymore.
Put a couple tools holding CCGT inserts into your repertoire, Maybe some VCGT, if you use the 35 degree diamond inserts.
They cut just fine at slow speeds too.And leave a nice surface finish, provided that one is not trying to make one's project out of rebar or similar quality bar.

The hardest thing I have seen for folks to get used to, running carbide, is bumping the tip or edge of the tool against the work when it is not turning. Stopping the spindle with the cutter in contact comes a close second place for ruining inserts.

I like HSS tooling, but would rather buy six pounds of blanks than pay for HSS pre-ground inserts.

For the most part, a guy that can blow the end off a carbide insert, can do the same with a HSS one, and the ability to resharpen it, really does not come into play in crashes. Guys that cannot grind their own tools from cheap blanks, will not be able to sharpen the inserts anyway.

Those kits, aside from their prices, are still pretty decent, but the FNG metal cutter that looks at them as his or her salvation from the terror of having to learn how to grind HSS blanks, is going to spend a bunch of money and end up unhappy.

The average home shop guy can do well to have a few carbide tools around, and will get good use out of them. They need to educate themselves, bite the bullet, and buy quality tooling and inserts, though, or it's money wasted.


Cheers
Trev
 
Who has the money to afford them, Bob? The same guys that can afford to buy HSS inserts pre-ground. Really. Guys that are at a level here they can get benefit from those inserts, will get even more benefit from carbide.

We're not talking about a lifetime of shop experience. Wer'e talking about some really basic skills that are pretty much integral to getting tools to work well on a lathe, if dealing with HSS, and we're talking about some really elementary levels of workmanship.

There has been altogether too much hooey written about how hard it is to grind tools, much like the same hooey that has been shovelled about thread cutting.

It is not difficult, unless one chooses to sit on one's own hands and refuse to get started.

What is your total investment in these tools? Better that a thousand bucks? You don't really think that constitutes a good deal for the new guy do you?

No, I don't try to resharpen carbide inserts. The ones that don't wear out, tend to have been involved in crashes, and are pretty much not recoverable, same as the HSS inserts would like to be in the same situation. Brazed carbide is mostly crap, and does need to be ground to get best results. It has it's uses, as disposable or sacrificial tooling, but I try to steer everyone away from it if I can.

No, Bob, HSS will not 'always outlast carbide'. Seen lots of stainless that got work hardened and proceeded to chew through the HSS bit. Pretty much screwed then. Then you get to find a carbide tool (any carbide tool) to get past the hard, and get back to cutting the soft material. You won't resharpen one of your inserts after one of those.

Those insert kits, I'm of the opinion that they are only barely OK. Too expensive for what they are, though. They would suit a guy that has enough skill that he does not really need to worry about changing out the inserts any time soon. Same guy would be fine with either grinding his own, or choosing and using appropriate carbide. They are a crappy deal for a new guy, who will promptly work through his supply of inserts, then be no further ahead, and still not know how to sharpen them. Not a benefit overall.

Y'all have a Happy New Year Bob. Confuse? Maybe. Maybe help someone avoid dumping a bunch of money into tools that are not actually going to solve their problems.

Cheers
Trev
 
You can not cut metal at low speeds with carbide and get a very good finish.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand the problem. My lathe has these dials and levers on the front that allow me to speed up the chuck. Its really kind of simple.

Indexable HSS seems like the answer to a question nobody asked.

One question I do have is how the heck do you get hold of those tiny inserts to sharpen them?
 
I have to laugh....I was having problems cutting threads with carbide,did every thing to get a nice clean cut,close but not the way it should be.A buddy of mine said I was nuts using a carbide...use HSS...he gave me some pointers for grinding...all I can say is WOW!!!....now it "peels' the metal off insted of chipping...A NICE SMOOTH CUT

I have converted back to HSS..(just do not buy the cheap sht) bought a nice grinding wheel...and use my carbide from time to time...both have their place



Cheers
 
Wow Bob you got that video posted on every hobby machining forum on the internet! two thumbs up for being a believer.
 
If the operator is not capable of grinding his own HSS tools from stock, he should not be operating a lathe.
I admit to liking HSS tools for some applications and the HSS indexable bits may be of some benefit where they do provide a better surface finish. Still, I would just as soon grind my own tools when I want steel. I don't see the ability to resharpen as being a great benefit. If you can re-sharpen, you can gring from stock. Regards, Bill.
 
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