High Speed Steel lathe tooling kits
- Thread starter Bob Pastor
- Start date
lejarretnoir
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- 162km from Connaught
Grinding HSS bits was also the first thing taught to me back in high school. That's machining 101. Learn it and understand the fundamentals of bit rakes and angles for different finishes. I still use them for special cuts. I can produce 3A threads, sharp and clean anytime with good quality carbide inserts and low speeds. Guess how I know which rakes and angles work?
HSS inserts have been around for awhile and I don't understand the need to push these on beginners? HSS will dull quicker, require more regrinding and yes carbide inserts/bits can be easily honed on diamond file cards. I also have a dedicated green wheel grinder for carbide and some carbide inserts that can produce an almost mirror finish on barrel steel. All in the technique.
Dennis you're still old school.
I've moved on to a Dorian quick change. Still have the old lantern tool post holder more for nostalgia these days, but know a few top smiths who still prefer the ol' rocker. BTW, Bob, there is a wealth of knowledge here on this forum from top experts to n00bs. Don't expect to say something and not be criticized. Ain't no thang.
Having close to fifty years experience in both jobbing shops and large corporations plus hobbying I understand both sides of this debate. Having insert style tooling and repeatable indexing means increases productivity and tolerance control. However being able to create your own tooling allows you the ability to produce, unique infrequently used, form tools! An alternate to investing into the cost of dedicated tooling. A machinest/toolmaker/ programmer who can't manufacture his own tooling is just an operator. A machinest/toolmaker/ programmer who doesn't use and accept modern advances in tooling is looking at going bankrupt, or a pain in the ass to the owner/schedular in this day and age.
However this is not a professional forum and all comments and opinions are valid for individual assessment. There is no right/wrong way if the job gets done, no blood or lives lost and the price is right. All the best Art
However this is not a professional forum and all comments and opinions are valid for individual assessment. There is no right/wrong way if the job gets done, no blood or lives lost and the price is right. All the best Art
x2. Why do some people feel the need to bust a guys' chops on what amounts to as, minor discrepancies. We all have the capability to sort through information, pick out the things we find helpfull and ignore the rest. Bob wasn't hurting anyone.
minor discrepancies
I thought about this overnite and was happy that it seemed to be put to bed. But that is not the case, okay lets do it again.
No 1. Bob was not hurting anyone. Agreed,Bob stated that the product that he was promoting would enable a beginner who had access to a lathe to machine simple projects. At this time several members replyed that they believed that a beginner would be better served to understand the basics of tool making. Also a discussion took place on the merits of type of materials a cutting tool should be composed of, Carbide or high speed steel. Is not this the reason for participating in discussion on a site such as Gun Nuts? Bob appeared to not accept any rebuttal of his theory and folded his tent and deleted his participation in this thread.
After Bob's departure a small number of GNs posted replys that Bob had been "blasted","had his chops busted";and had been mistreated badly by everyone who did not agree with his statements It was noted that those whom disagreed were from a "Old boys club" and did not want to assist "beginners" with their knowledge. Included in this retort was that no one should disagree with Bob who did not construct a home video teaching others of his own methods and opinions
Was Bob Pastor treated unfairly?
No, Bob stated his opinion and others stated theirs
Is anyone who disagreed and in trying not to pass on their knowledge guilty of belonging to a "old boys club' and trying to hinder "beginners"?
No.2 I had two years of Vocational Training as a machinist and several upgrade courses over the years. I could not earn a living on the West Coast for my family and work in a stimulating and rewarding field. Not wishing to relocate to Ontario I started over and became a heavy construction Electrician ending my career as a cable splicer and troubleshooter. In 1985 I was able to return to Gunsmithing . I have been helped and mentored people in the trades that I have involved with throughout my life are therefore find it very insulting to be told that I'm living in the past and am not willing pass on my knowledge. No I have not made a "home video" because there are many on "you tube" and other sites that explain methods far better than I ever could.
I stated on this Thread that I hope to learn new things until I pass. Please understand the greatest learning is by passing on knowledge. Don"t make comment on things that you little comprehension. Ask questions ,refer to the extensive information available,and when informed state you "opinion"
Rick
I thought about this overnite and was happy that it seemed to be put to bed. But that is not the case, okay lets do it again.
No 1. Bob was not hurting anyone. Agreed,Bob stated that the product that he was promoting would enable a beginner who had access to a lathe to machine simple projects. At this time several members replyed that they believed that a beginner would be better served to understand the basics of tool making. Also a discussion took place on the merits of type of materials a cutting tool should be composed of, Carbide or high speed steel. Is not this the reason for participating in discussion on a site such as Gun Nuts? Bob appeared to not accept any rebuttal of his theory and folded his tent and deleted his participation in this thread.
After Bob's departure a small number of GNs posted replys that Bob had been "blasted","had his chops busted";and had been mistreated badly by everyone who did not agree with his statements It was noted that those whom disagreed were from a "Old boys club" and did not want to assist "beginners" with their knowledge. Included in this retort was that no one should disagree with Bob who did not construct a home video teaching others of his own methods and opinions
Was Bob Pastor treated unfairly?
No, Bob stated his opinion and others stated theirs
Is anyone who disagreed and in trying not to pass on their knowledge guilty of belonging to a "old boys club' and trying to hinder "beginners"?
No.2 I had two years of Vocational Training as a machinist and several upgrade courses over the years. I could not earn a living on the West Coast for my family and work in a stimulating and rewarding field. Not wishing to relocate to Ontario I started over and became a heavy construction Electrician ending my career as a cable splicer and troubleshooter. In 1985 I was able to return to Gunsmithing . I have been helped and mentored people in the trades that I have involved with throughout my life are therefore find it very insulting to be told that I'm living in the past and am not willing pass on my knowledge. No I have not made a "home video" because there are many on "you tube" and other sites that explain methods far better than I ever could.
I stated on this Thread that I hope to learn new things until I pass. Please understand the greatest learning is by passing on knowledge. Don"t make comment on things that you little comprehension. Ask questions ,refer to the extensive information available,and when informed state you "opinion"
Rick
Was he promoting or simply showing what he used?
First off it was HIS thread, and wasnt intended as a discussion. He said very clearly in his first post that he was asked by many people about what tooling he was using in his videos. So he made the video showing what it was and where to get it if you wanted the same tooling.
Bob mentioned he had around 125 CGN member PM him reguarding his posts on here.... considerably more than a "few".
Yes, he simply showed what he was doing and a very small handful of people decided they needed to get their own views heard in the same post.
And you know everyones (including Bob's) comprehension on the subject right?
Give it a rest, he is gone. There is nothing left to argue about.
What is that supposed to mean?
tomorrow you can attack some one else
Yeah it was me who attacked somebody on this thread. Good call.
What ever Buds Have a nice day
Don't bother forgiving me. I have a pretty darn good idea what I'm doing.
I've ate a fair share of crow for saying stuff that I can't back up. When I do, I fess up and move on wiser.
I've showed enough folks the real basics of tool grinding and lathe operations, and pointed them at as many good sources of information as I have been able.
It's not rocket science, and adding to the pile of hooey that already exists about grinding tools is not needed.
Mr. Pastor can stay or go, on his own terms.
Cheers
Trev
Ishootguns
Regular
- Location
- Acton Ontario
Too bad you are not willing to show more people.
easy way
Trev is correct in that the easy way and the proper way are not always the same thing. Trev has a history of teaching the basics and finds it is stupid to accept this issue. It would be interesting if you would tell everyone of your experience in teaching fundamentals of machine shop practices. As I stated before how does the ability to compete in shooting competitions enable one to become a expert in a very complex trade via spending money rather than learning a basic introduction
I would not expect anyone to learn how to use a firearm by watching a video on how to load it without understanding safety and would not make a video of how to reload ammunition without sound basics.
Having been instructed in machine practice and having used my limited knowledge of the same to aid anyone who is interested. I do not take this post as being of merit. I have not met a machinist in my lifetime that has not taken the time to help and educated me or others in his idea of how it is done.
You are correct in that I am not willing to show anyone a incomplete way of
accomplishing a procedure.
Rick
Trev is correct in that the easy way and the proper way are not always the same thing. Trev has a history of teaching the basics and finds it is stupid to accept this issue. It would be interesting if you would tell everyone of your experience in teaching fundamentals of machine shop practices. As I stated before how does the ability to compete in shooting competitions enable one to become a expert in a very complex trade via spending money rather than learning a basic introduction
I would not expect anyone to learn how to use a firearm by watching a video on how to load it without understanding safety and would not make a video of how to reload ammunition without sound basics.
Having been instructed in machine practice and having used my limited knowledge of the same to aid anyone who is interested. I do not take this post as being of merit. I have not met a machinist in my lifetime that has not taken the time to help and educated me or others in his idea of how it is done.
You are correct in that I am not willing to show anyone a incomplete way of
accomplishing a procedure.
Rick
dead horses
I have put a few dead horses underground in my life. One thing I observed that they all stunk if allowed to remain to rot
I have put a few dead horses underground in my life. One thing I observed that they all stunk if allowed to remain to rot
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
Is this thread still going???
My 2c (worth less than 1c) I have found grinding my own tools to be a very important part of the learning experience and getting a "feel" for how different shaped tools cut.
I could understand how one would like certain,specific, pre-ground HHS tools. A perfect example would be a 60* thread cutting HHS insert.
My 2c (worth less than 1c) I have found grinding my own tools to be a very important part of the learning experience and getting a "feel" for how different shaped tools cut.
I could understand how one would like certain,specific, pre-ground HHS tools. A perfect example would be a 60* thread cutting HHS insert.
Ishootguns
Regular
- Location
- Acton Ontario
Happy New Year
Ishootguns,
I have lots of time for interested folks. What I don't have time for, is to learn yet another skillset, and start to make videos, or otherwise try to reproduce what info that is already pretty available.
I'm not inclined towards you-tubing the minutiae of my life, so I point folks at those references that are readily available and have been, in some cases, for longer than we both have been alive. You are under 100 years young, right?
A lathe cutting tool is in it's simplest form, is just a sharp edge presented to the work. Clear some space under the edge closest to the work, and you have created the front releif. Do the same, create some clearance on the side of the tool blank that will end up face on to the chuck, you have side releif. Look at the tool from the top, and you don't want the heel of the cutting edge (the part farthest from the chuck) to hit the work and mark it up, so you taper it that way, to produce tip clearance. Put a wee radius or even just a flat spot on the tip, to make it less fragile, and you can use it as-is.
Some careful stoning of the edge will much improve the cutting edge. Pretty much depends on how it is done. But it's easier than getting a decent edge on a pocketknife blade.
Rake is put on by tapering back the top of the tool, again, away from that same point.
You want all three of the tapered parts to be closest to the work at the top, nearest the chuck.
The sharp edge reaches the work first. Kinda the basic principle. The rest is the details. The devil is in the details, but you can fudge a lot, just putting the sharp edge in contact with the work first!
It's better explained in almost every manual out there, but it takes about as long to type it, as to do it.
Practice, on a 3/8" bit. Draw on it with a Sharpie marker, if it helps. I've shown guys tool shapes using plasticine. Just seeing the shape is sometimes enough.
On the other hand, I once drew out a tool shape on a very large parallel bar, using a Sharpie. Big. Easy to see and understand. I thought. I turned around in time to see the fellow standing in front of the grinder, about to start grinding away the parallel bar! Things that make you understand things from the FNG's perspective!
I am very much a visual person. If I see it, I can generally figure out how to make it. Or at least, how it was made. I tend towards a lot of demo's and napkin drawings. Sometimes readable ones.
Send a camera crew, or show up with a bit of advance warning, and I'll demo for you. I'm not that keen on video editing, or shooting videos of myself. <shrug> We can't all be photogenic, either!
Cheers
Trev
I have lots of time for interested folks. What I don't have time for, is to learn yet another skillset, and start to make videos, or otherwise try to reproduce what info that is already pretty available.
I'm not inclined towards you-tubing the minutiae of my life, so I point folks at those references that are readily available and have been, in some cases, for longer than we both have been alive. You are under 100 years young, right?
A lathe cutting tool is in it's simplest form, is just a sharp edge presented to the work. Clear some space under the edge closest to the work, and you have created the front releif. Do the same, create some clearance on the side of the tool blank that will end up face on to the chuck, you have side releif. Look at the tool from the top, and you don't want the heel of the cutting edge (the part farthest from the chuck) to hit the work and mark it up, so you taper it that way, to produce tip clearance. Put a wee radius or even just a flat spot on the tip, to make it less fragile, and you can use it as-is.
Some careful stoning of the edge will much improve the cutting edge. Pretty much depends on how it is done. But it's easier than getting a decent edge on a pocketknife blade.
Rake is put on by tapering back the top of the tool, again, away from that same point.
You want all three of the tapered parts to be closest to the work at the top, nearest the chuck.
The sharp edge reaches the work first. Kinda the basic principle. The rest is the details. The devil is in the details, but you can fudge a lot, just putting the sharp edge in contact with the work first!
It's better explained in almost every manual out there, but it takes about as long to type it, as to do it.
Practice, on a 3/8" bit. Draw on it with a Sharpie marker, if it helps. I've shown guys tool shapes using plasticine. Just seeing the shape is sometimes enough.
On the other hand, I once drew out a tool shape on a very large parallel bar, using a Sharpie. Big. Easy to see and understand. I thought. I turned around in time to see the fellow standing in front of the grinder, about to start grinding away the parallel bar!
Things that make you understand things from the FNG's perspective!I am very much a visual person. If I see it, I can generally figure out how to make it. Or at least, how it was made. I tend towards a lot of demo's and napkin drawings. Sometimes readable ones.
Send a camera crew, or show up with a bit of advance warning, and I'll demo for you. I'm not that keen on video editing, or shooting videos of myself. <shrug> We can't all be photogenic, either!
Cheers
Trev
