High value 'double barrel rifle'?

Dogleg said:
I used a Verney Caron last year that was anything but a club, though logic forces me to admit that the 13 thousand dollar rifle was a handicap, not an advantage. Trouble was, everytime I put it down it would draw me back in like a fish on a line. Eventually it wore me down.

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Jesus, you might be even uglier without the moustache!
 
Boomer said:
BUM nailed it. Then when you consider that turn of the Century British double rifles carry a premium, a rifle like this John Wilkes .500 NE:
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can come at the cost of a new pick-up.

But given my personality and life experience, I wouldn't trade a Brno 602 or a Winchester M-70 for a double that I had to hunt with. The double just doesn't do it for me; its too bad, I really wanted to be an enthusiast. The end product is an amazing mix of craftsmanship and art; but where I expected a wand, I got a club! The club allowed me to kill a buff, but I was far more impressed with the cartridge than the rifle.

Given that this was a fairly high end rifle, trust me, a thousand bucks will buy you a much better bolt gun than it will a double, regardless of how the barrels are positioned.
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Hey Boomer, have you got any better pictures of that Wilkes? I'd like to have a closer look at that.
 
9.3mauser said:
Hey Boomer, have you got any better pictures of that Wilkes? I'd like to have a closer look at that.
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I went through our African pics, and I didn't see any. But there is this one . . .
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You can see the muzzle of the John Wilkes which was cradled in my left arm, and this is a Charles Osborne .577 NE, which was a nicer rifle IMHO.
 
The Osborne looks like a good quality gun. I'd love to uncork that against a buff or elephant, as long as I had someone else along to carry it... my guess is about 15 lbs? I love the craftsmanship that went into these old doubles, but on a practical level, I think bolts are better.
 
209jones said:
Why do I want a SXS double rifle? Bit of nostalgia, bit of history, bit of a challemge. Always liked SXS double shotguns. Will they shoot like a single barrelled gun, nope. Maybe off one barrel, it could be setup to do that, defeats the purpose though. They were setup to be short range, fast handling, bigbore guns originally, 130 yrs ago. Single barrelled guns are getting boring for me, had enough of them, that I've worked my way through the hype (so to speak) of the uberpowerful, knock'em DRT at 500yards and shoot a .25 group out there phase. I like spot and stalk hunting, seeing how close I can get, like bowhunting. Still not willing to give up a 200yd opp if that is all I have though. And a double can do that.
As to the price of them, they are what they are, labour isn't cheap, be it building a custom car, boat or house. Heck, I spent 5000.00 dressing up my truck, and lost that value driving it off the lot, and more.. Modern tooling has helped get the price down, but, the regulation process is what it is, some have tried "cheaper" methods, and failed badly, so far. And the gun will hold its price better than the truck ever will.
The fact that it has the two SXS barrels is the cause of that, can't get away from it. I can spend just as much on a bolt gun, get one a lot more nicely dressed than a SXS for less money, but it's a bolt gun, that just doesn't turn my crank anymore. The double is another learning process, and some fun to be had, doing something I like doing, in a different fashion.
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If you're bored with the bolt guns, and doubles are out of your price range ( mine too :( ) maybe you should look at single shots, maybe a Ruger No. 1 in a classic calibre like 7x57, .303, or 9.3x74R. Leave the scope off, put decent irons on it, and you've put the "hunt" back into hunting. Or a nice light Mauser in 7x57 with open sights.
 
9.3mauser said:
The Osborne looks like a good quality gun. I'd love to uncork that against a buff or elephant, as long as I had someone else along to carry it... my guess is about 15 lbs? I love the craftsmanship that went into these old doubles, but on a practical level, I think bolts are better.
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I tend to agree. The original arguments in favor of double rifles were that you had two independent fire control systems that provided a hunter with redundancy in case of breakage, when he was weeks away from a gunsmith; the other was the speed of the second shot. I doubt that either argument holds up today, as safaris tend to be short, almost always less than a month, so serious rifle failures are less common. Should your hunt last longer, you can afford to take a second rifle. While the speed of the second shot might be a reasonable argument if both the double and the bolt gun were both chambered in 7X57, but in big bore chamberings, it takes as much time to pull the double down out of recoil and reacquire the target, as it does the bolt, by which time the action is cycled, provided the shooter is practiced. If he's not practiced, it doesn't really matter what kind of rifle he has, but if he harps the triggers on his double, his muzzles will be pointed skyward, and both chambers will be empty . . . and the buff is still coming.
 
I'd actually like to see some comparison testing of the relative speed of a big bore bolt and double. I would hazard a guess that, in practiced hands, the double is still faster at getting a second shot off than a bolt is. Watch video of a competent hand running both types (Craig Boddington comes to mind putting 4 rounds of 375 H&H into a buff and two shots into an elephant after a failed frontal brain shot) and I think you'll see that the double is faster. Now, if you get into rounds 3 and 4 the bolt pulls ahead. But the bottom of the magazine is scary country with dangerous game inbound.
 
Personally I think the bottom of a magazine is a bad place to be in any hunting situation aside from waterfowl. For dangerous game I still believe a backup shooter or two is the best bet of all. I myself would LOVE to own a beautiful double in a big bore caliber, however unless I win a lottery I doubt it will ever happen.
 
Cleftwynd said:
Personally I think the bottom of a magazine is a bad place to be in any hunting situation aside from waterfowl. For dangerous game I still believe a backup shooter or two is the best bet of all. I myself would LOVE to own a beautiful double in a big bore caliber, however unless I win a lottery I doubt it will ever happen.
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I agree, two shooters should be better than one. Sadly, a second shooter didn't help my friend Owain.
 
I would love a double rifle but I am putting my coin into going to Africa first. I will be using a bolt gun.

The video below depicts dangerous game hunting with a double rifle. Do not view if the sight of animals being shot offends you.



Dan
 
if budget is not a problem a brand not that much mentionned but Mathelon is a great gunsmith and is making even triple express just imagine the regulations work ...
 
BigUglyMan said:
I'd actually like to see some comparison testing of the relative speed of a big bore bolt and double. I would hazard a guess that, in practiced hands, the double is still faster at getting a second shot off than a bolt is. Watch video of a competent hand running both types (Craig Boddington comes to mind putting 4 rounds of 375 H&H into a buff and two shots into an elephant after a failed frontal brain shot) and I think you'll see that the double is faster. Now, if you get into rounds 3 and 4 the bolt pulls ahead. But the bottom of the magazine is scary country with dangerous game inbound.
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Mark Sullivan is pretty handy with a double, but when shooting game the speed of his second shot is seldom the requirement, even on a charge, which he defines as starting at 30'. Until the 30 marker has been breached, anything can happen, but once insider 30' its on. Sullivan's technique is to wait. At 8'-12' the first barrel is fired into the brain, the animal is knocked down, and a kill shot is then made at his feet. At such short range a back-up shooter won't be much help. There are few bolt guns that are in the same recoil league as a .577 or a .600, but based on watching Sullivan shoot, with my .375 Ultra, I can probably fire 3 aimed shots at a moving target for his two, with a .458 I might be a shade slower than him with his double, but the practical difference wouldn't matter. When I was shooting the double, I found I was quite a bit faster with a bolt gun, not that I'm any better than anyone else, but I'm clumsy with the double, and have difficulty manipulating two triggers. I could practice I suppose; prior to going to Tanzania, I acquired a 12 ga SXS, loaded it with slugs, and went to work with it to gain a feel for shooting with 2 triggers. I'm not sure it helped. Today though, I have neither the interest or the resources to master a double rifle, although C-FBMI was kind enough to let me burn up his .470 ammo last summer in his Merkle. Same deal, it took forever for the second trigger to break.
 
The trick to firing two triggers is to shift your hand slightly to the rear as the gun recoils... a little easier with shotgun & a straight grip. If you just move your trigger finger it's slow, and also tends to give you a vicious rap to the knuckle when you fire the second barrel.

The guy in the video shooting the buffalo with the model 70 was slow... there was lots of time for a second shot. The double is faster for a second shot, but there are lots of good pros who've spent their careers standing behind a bolt rifle.
 
I know the guy with the bolt in the video is slow and with practice a bolt can be run very quickly. I haven't shot a double rifle but am very familiar with double triggers on a shotgun and it is quick. I am certainly not denying that a bolt rifle can be extremely effective with a good man running the bolt. "Don't admire the shot, work the bolt"
 
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