andrew3081
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
In this world, you get what you pay more. That was how it was and how it will be.
Higher end NR rifles, Robinson Arms XCR ($2500) vs Tavor 21 ($2750), which is better
- Thread starter Springfieldfan
- Start date
In this world, you get what you pay more. That was how it was and how it will be.
Sorry you are right. Post edited.
I know it's not either of the guns your talking about but if your looking for quality and non restricted check out the Swiss arms! Took mine out for the first time today and she's swwwwweet! As long as the guberment don't take it away 
, anyways another option on your list
, anyways another option on your listI agree and have zero issue dropping the coin. But not everyone wants to spend 3G on a rifle so atleast another great non restricted option is out there for the masses to enjoy.
andrew3081
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
Yes, but there is no point of comparing a cheap bullpup to an expensive one...they each have their own league and market.
small amount of units... How about brigade sized elite front line units... sigh...
Here we go, a little education about the theater of war in the Golan heights for the IDF.
A typical day as an IDF patrol in the Golan heights is being shot at about every 15 minutes by some whoever tribe terrorist group Allah has deemed worthy on that day. Golani brigade of the IDF uses Tavor. Golani brigade has been fighting and depending on their rifle for their life, say for the past 40 years since the Yum Kippur offensive of the Arabs in 1973.
These guys don't play dressup, they're not working on their tans in Cyprus, or eating souvlakis in Kosovo, this is the real deal here folks.
here's a link to some history about the golani brigade for anyone who doubts...
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/golani_brigade.html
The Tavor rifle is also used by the Givati brigade, another front line elite unit, who controls the sought border of Israel with Gaza, another great place where you get shot at on a regular basis...
here's some history about the givati brigade, their specialty marine amphibious landings, I think you need a reliable rifle for that...
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/givati.html
XCR has never seen a real theater of war to this day. being a contender in a rifle upgrade government project is not a theater of war.
So I dunno, that's a whole lot of trust in one rifle and one of the reasons why I bought mine.
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Just incase you missed it I wasn't comparing the two. I was posting on your initial ignorant comment.
The type 97 is in the same family as the QBZ-95, the main infantry rifle of the Chinese army. I think they've probably got the reliability dialed in by now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBZ-95
I say my fine fellow.
The Tavor is a most suitable fire arm.
Especially in having all the amenities of a currently issued service weapon.
Its' compactness makes it particularly well suited for CQB situations.
Fershizzle and Mozeltoff
Thank God for Babelfish.
Replaced by what...the xcr?
Xcr may have been designed to be used by the most well trained soldiers on the planet, however right now the most well trained soldiers on the planet are using Tavors.
Many rifles designed to be used, are just that and sitting in dust heaps in R&D facilities or sold to the retail market to recoup R&D costs, like the xcr.
Breitling, your premises of argument is the XCR is better because of who is supposed to use it. According to your premise the Tavor is MUCH better because of who IS using it. The number of elite units using a TAVOR far outnumbers the number using the XCR.
sithinside
Regular
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
Listen to dirt. Get the Tavor.
I'm hoping I can get one in .308 one day.
I'm hoping I can get one in .308 one day.
OMG that must be the Isreali D team
It makes me angry just looking at though sorry sacksFirst jack up would be GET THAT POS MAG HOLSTER OFF YOUR F^&*ING GUN!!!!!! WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR RIFLE IS? YOUR BF F%^&KING EURO THRASH HAND BAG?
WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR RIFLE IS? YOUR BF F%^&KING EURO THRASH HAND BAG?
It's not a rifle, it's a bullpup.
small amount of units... How about brigade sized elite front line units... sigh...
Here we go, a little education about the theater of war in the Golan heights for the IDF.
A typical day as an IDF patrol in the Golan heights is being shot at about every 15 minutes by some whoever tribe terrorist group Allah has deemed worthy on that day. Golani brigade of the IDF uses Tavor. Golani brigade has been fighting and depending on their rifle for their life, say for the past 40 years since the Yum Kippur offensive of the Arabs in 1973.
These guys don't play dressup, they're not working on their tans in Cyprus, or eating souvlakis in Kosovo, this is the real deal here folks.
here's a link to some history about the golani brigade for anyone who doubts...
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/golani_brigade.html
The Tavor rifle is also used by the Givati brigade, another front line elite unit, who controls the sought border of Israel with Gaza, another great place where you get shot at on a regular basis...
here's some history about the givati brigade, their specialty marine amphibious landings, I think you need a reliable rifle for that...
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/givati.html
XCR has never seen a real theater of war to this day. being a contender in a rifle upgrade government project is not a theater of war.
So I dunno, that's a whole lot of trust in one rifle and one of the reasons why I bought mine.
Everywhere I went I only saw M4's in use around the border which is primarily where I saw soldiers. Even within the IOF, no weapons that have come out of Israel have gotten any widespread use. The Galil AK variant has spread around to various armed forced more than the Tavor has, no one is touting it. Just because someone is using something in their armed forces, it doesn't make it battle proven or qualify it for civilian use. No one is going around spouting off about how great the Norinco QBZ-95; because it is a ####ty bullpup just like the Tar-21.
I don’t get what this whole love affair with the IOF is; “If the IOF depend on it then it’s good enough for me!
They do Ok in general so long as they fight terribly equipped, poorly trained losers already bombed into submission by the Israeli Air force which is clearly their Special Operations people and do the vast majority of the heavy lifting. Read “Air Operations in Isreal’s War Against Hezbollah” by Benjamin S. Lambeth.
When the IOF invaded south Lebanon, a bunch of Hezbollah weekend warriors with ####ty gear pretty much had entire units pinned down all over and would have slaughtered hundreds of them if not for the constant stream of air support. I think for the majority of the fighting the IOF had about 10,000 soldier’s vs 3000 hezbollah fighters. The IAF ran over 12,000 combat missions in what 33 days or something? And the casualties ended up something like 1:3.5 IOF:Hezbollah depending who you believe. Why do you think the Israelis are working so hard against Syria or anyone else in the region getting surface to air capabilities?
The Tavor has been claimed to be “battle proven” as it was used during Operation Cast Lead which was not a battle. The Israeli ground forces could have rolled out armed with nothing but a blunt crooked tree branch to share and the results of the ground combat would have been the same, minus a couple casualties and some friendly fire casualties. A rock or a blunt object is far more battle proven than a Tavor and I don’t see anyone running around claiming a Louisville slugger should replace a service rifle. The 1911 has seen exponentially more combat than the IOF never mind the Tavor and how many armed forces still consider it their primary combat ready side arm?
I mean, even Bush Jr. said “Israel's "shaky military performance" cost it international credibility. He also said that Israel "mishandled" it’s opportunity, and that some of the sites it attacked were of "questionable military value". This was in his book Decision Points.. How is this impressing people? How bad do you have to be to be accurately criticized by Bush.
If you call your gear battle proven because you survived “combat” which consisted of you donning your costume, jumping into an APC and driving to an area already bombed out and shooting some civilians and the odd guy in a T-shirt armed with an old AK along the way, does this prove your kit is what kept you alive thus qualifying it as battle proven? Claiming they take the odd pot shot is not combat either. There are Native reserves where the RCMP can only enter with the ERT because they get pot shots taken at them. That's not battle or combat, that's getting shot at. With the Tavor they can't shoot back because it's useless at range. That's why the IOF units deployed out along borders etc are using the M4 still. It's a real gun.
I’m pretty confident in saying that the IOF has not seen combat against any comparably trained and equipped military in decades and I have no idea why people can't stop glorifying them. They are nothing special. If you want a battle proven rifle, look into what is in use by Americans, any force deployed, or anyone who choses their weapon. Or just get a Kabar, it's seen a lot more combat than a Tavor, and is more useful at range.
Davy Crockett
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley
^^
Sounds like you have issues.
Sounds like you have issues.
He refers to the IOF instead of IDF.
I hadnt heard that term so I looked it up.
"Israeli Occupation Forces, a label used by some opponents of the Israeli Defense Forces"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOF
I suspect he has a hate-on for anything Israeli
I hadnt heard that term so I looked it up.
"Israeli Occupation Forces, a label used by some opponents of the Israeli Defense Forces"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOF
I suspect he has a hate-on for anything Israeli
Yup that's what I'm thinking. He's probably a Palestinian or something.
Translation;
I find the Tavor way better than the XCR, it's a gun used by an active military and feels way more compact and easy to manuver than the XCR.
(We are basing this on the assumption that he has owned and extensively used both)
I will only address this comment.
MAC was shooting a 10 inch gong at 500 meters with his tavor with an Elcan 4x sight. See his youtube channel.
Any assault rifle that can shoot a 10 inch target at 500 meters is not useless at range.
Anything else you mentioned is political and I will not address it i.e. IOF
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