Because HK is a huge company that has the resources to properly engineer and test their products? Many smaller manufacturers simply do not have such capability. They may be good at replicating existing decades-old designs, but building a new product from scratch is a totally different game and one where mom and pop shops usually don't excel.
HK 416 Demo
- Thread starter Rich LPS
- Start date
dangertree
Business Rep
- Location
- NL/ON/FL/PL
For the problems you're listing, HK is pretty much blameless.
Blame the german gov for the restrictions on civilian sale of 'military firearms', not HK.
Blame FN Sports for parts/support problems, though HK do use them, so a maybe on that.
Blame the US DOS for the further 'non-sporting' US export restrictions, not FN Sports, not HK.
Blame the german gov for the restrictions on civilian sale of 'military firearms', not HK.
Blame FN Sports for parts/support problems, though HK do use them, so a maybe on that.
Blame the US DOS for the further 'non-sporting' US export restrictions, not FN Sports, not HK.
DT, yeah over 7 months for some factory sites.. waiting over 1 year and still waiting for a 9mm barrel... I bet if I was officer kickass on the ETF I wouldve had it overnighted on my desk the next day... HK just doesnt give a #### about civilian sales anymore..
Its not the good old Soldier of Fortune advertisment days... remember the one with the guy crawling out of the swamp?
Seems that HK needed the US civilian market to help establish them..now that they are..its goverment only..
lol
It seems that as soon as someone starts talking about the HK416 it gets peoples' backs up. I don't think anyone is saying that the standard Colt Canada C8 / SFW or Colt Defense M4 are bad guns. It's just that the HK416 is better, in nearly all respects. Is it that much better to require an entire army, be it US or Canada to switch? Probably not worth the expense. The currently fielded systems are execelent and doing a great job for our forces.
As for just having to clean the weapon in a different place I do not agree. The G36 piston system does not require the same cleaning and maintence that a standard C8 / M4 does (in the bolt / bolt carrier). If you have spent any time with either a 416 or G36 it is obvious. Some of the early testing of the G36 had it running 24000 rounds without cleaning or lubing. As good as the C8 / M4 is I don't think this is possible with those systems.
Large companies have the technical knowledge and experience to evaluate and test weapon systems to a much higher degree than the small ones do. You can bet your ass that HK, FN, Swiss Arms ect. spend more money designing, developing and torture testing their guns than the entire net worth of some of the smaller companies that have never supplied an army anywhere. When my life is on the line I'll go with one of the big proven companies over the small ones.
The HK 416 is simply stated; taking a great weapon (M4), giving it to the grumpy Germans, having them perfect and improve it as much as possible. Lets not forget that the lead HK designer, of the 416, comented that the M4 was an ingenius design and very advanced for it's time with many outstanding features. He didn't slam it at all, just thought it could be made better. When you have the M4 and 416 side by side you will know what I mean. The only down side to the 416 is that it is heavier.
Savage should be posting pic's and video soon. We also have pic's and video of the SG 552. I am still of the opinon that the SG552 is a better weapon. Savage also shot them side by side and I think he now shares that opinion.
My shoulders are big and I'm ready for the backlash on this,
Rich
P.S. I too am pissed off that civilians can't get more access to HK weapons, parts or service. As it was stated before though, it is complicated and has alot to do with German Federal law.
As for just having to clean the weapon in a different place I do not agree. The G36 piston system does not require the same cleaning and maintence that a standard C8 / M4 does (in the bolt / bolt carrier). If you have spent any time with either a 416 or G36 it is obvious. Some of the early testing of the G36 had it running 24000 rounds without cleaning or lubing. As good as the C8 / M4 is I don't think this is possible with those systems.
Large companies have the technical knowledge and experience to evaluate and test weapon systems to a much higher degree than the small ones do. You can bet your ass that HK, FN, Swiss Arms ect. spend more money designing, developing and torture testing their guns than the entire net worth of some of the smaller companies that have never supplied an army anywhere. When my life is on the line I'll go with one of the big proven companies over the small ones.
The HK 416 is simply stated; taking a great weapon (M4), giving it to the grumpy Germans, having them perfect and improve it as much as possible. Lets not forget that the lead HK designer, of the 416, comented that the M4 was an ingenius design and very advanced for it's time with many outstanding features. He didn't slam it at all, just thought it could be made better. When you have the M4 and 416 side by side you will know what I mean. The only down side to the 416 is that it is heavier.
Savage should be posting pic's and video soon. We also have pic's and video of the SG 552. I am still of the opinon that the SG552 is a better weapon. Savage also shot them side by side and I think he now shares that opinion.
My shoulders are big and I'm ready for the backlash on this,
Rich
P.S. I too am pissed off that civilians can't get more access to HK weapons, parts or service. As it was stated before though, it is complicated and has alot to do with German Federal law.
Just find a big stick and apply appropriate amounts of downward pressure, repeat as neccessary. Not hard at all. Who knows, maybe you could beat some of the ugly out of it.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yes, it's an AR. It's also too short, too select fire, and too unavailable anyhow.
I probably just got sucked into the joke though...
Yup
I agree with you on the last bit - but a lot of people who don't know anything about the system are bad mouthing it.
Yes and no.
I've put 5k thru a C7 in one day - and 3500 thru a Suppressed Mk18 in one day - all w/o issue - I think the cleaning issues is a bit of a misnomer - as w/ anything the value added /requirement needs to be looked at.
I agree its a good idea to require less cleaning from firing - but from my experiences in Afghanistan and Iraq - weapons will accumulate much more junk from dirt and the fine talcum powder sand dust that will impeed function before carbon siezes them up.
Well as we saw with early Sig 552's even good compnaies can release something before its ready
.Larry Vickers and a bunch of Delta/CAG/AWG guys feed the design and requirement of the 416.
Biggest issue with the 416 is at night it does vent gas to the front with a suppressor attached - its been subsequently redesigned - and then did not work well suppressed...
The current version is a good deal better than the previous three generations
I as one knows am not a big 552 fan.
I think the barrel is too short unless one is doing covert work where a long gun is not a viable option. Even using Mk262 - the bullet will not frag and greentip works like an ice pick --
IMHO the 551 is 10x the weapon the 552 is, and I vastly prefer the M4A1 to either.
I I value Rich's opinion, I just think he's wrong
j/k - we have vastly different parameters of use.
Just my $0.02 and worth exactly that...
Just find a big stick and apply appropriate amounts of downward pressure, repeat as neccessary. Not hard at all. Who knows, maybe you could beat some of the ugly out of it.
Yup
