HK 416, kinda heavy

I've never had the opportunity to shoot the HK but did take a good look at SHOT.

Yes they are heavy but then so are a lot of other heavy barreled monolithic uppers. What did stand out to me is junk triggers on all the HKs. If I were so inclined as to buy one of these beasts there is no way I'd waste the money on the lower, I'm sure you could build a fantastic lower for less then the value of the HK one.

That said HK is never really the "value" option real or perceived.
 
Rauch Tactical said:
I've never had the opportunity to shoot the HK but did take a good look at SHOT.

Yes they are heavy but then so are a lot of other heavy barreled monolithic uppers. What did stand out to me is junk triggers on all the HKs.
Click to expand...

Your conclusion on the trigger is one that few actual *users* share. It is a combat trigger with the appropriate weight, but very nice to use. If you want something lighter to play with or prefer a two stage trigger, the option to swap in a Geissele, KAC, Timney etc is always there.

By the way, it isn't a monolithic upper. This Colt is:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=146909973

This MR223 (or the HK416 for that matter) isn't:
imgp1234b.jpg


Rauch Tactical said:
If I were so inclined as to buy one of these beasts there is no way I'd waste the money on the lower, I'm sure you could build a fantastic lower for less then the value of the HK one.

That said HK is never really the "value" option real or perceived.
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The HK lowers are generally considered to be one of the best if not the best available. No argument about HK value. There are lots of very good ARs available for considerably less money. I tend towards "buy once cry once" myself :)
 
angryeyebrows said:
My old 10" 416 upper was definitely a beast. Very heavy for such a short carbine. Easily comparable to a 16" 6920.

This weight was directly attributed to the barrel profile, piston and the quad rail.

Even now my 16" DI carbine with a DD RIS rail seems lighter.

Add to that a light...maybe a VG, some optics and BUIS and you have a hefty little gun.

Weight was a contributing factor for selling it.
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The new production lots have a thinner barrel profile under the handguard.

hk416upper-4_776_detail.jpg


I believe the old profile was the same as the MR223:
imgp1237.jpg
 
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There is a reason the trigger is harder, when HK made their test with colt lower spec, the recoil was so hard it would trip the sear, so they had to make the contact surface a bit bigger.

and yes the piston system make it heavier,with the operating rod, spring, piston and heavy piston block, its heavier than the thin gas system
 
The HK is heavy because the barrel nut is massive and the barrel profile is thick - remember the M4 barrel burst test?? It is no magic - if it needs to take more FA fire, the barrel mass needs to go up. It is not HK magic, it is physics.

Also need to consider how the piston is attached - in a SIG, the piston runs inside a gas tube , which connects the gas block to the receiver. With the HK and G36, the piston rod itself does that. Once the barrel start going soft, the piston rod itself becomes the holding support of the barrel assembly. to make sure that won't happen too early, the easiest way is to beef up the barrel.

It is a bit problematic, once the barrel start yielding, the piston may not go back into the same position as the gas block and the barrel start falling off. With the sig, the gas tube will at least keep the piston and the gas block aligned until the gas tube itself is yielding as well.
 
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Wow greentips,

You are talking about very hot guns under heavy firing schedules to get this to happen. The Standard G36 barrel isn't that thick, I'm not sure what the failure point of it is.

Rich
 
Rich,
Re: G36 barrel thickness. A friend used a G36 for most of his time in the sandbox (14 month private contract). I asked him about the performance of this weapon. He detailed at least four engagements with >100 rounds put down-range in a fairly short time period, many others with 10 - 30 rounds fired, most in very warm ambient temperatures (>40 Celsius). Absolutely no problems with the system, he stated it was one of the best rifles he'd ever carried.

Andrew
 
greentips said:
The HK is heavy because the barrel nut is massive and the barrel profile is thick - remember the M4 barrel burst test?? It is no magic - if it needs to take more FA fire, the barrel mass needs to go up. It is not HK magic, it is physics.

Also need to consider how the piston is attached - in a SIG, the piston runs inside a gas tube , which connects the gas block to the receiver. With the HK and G36, the piston rod itself does that. Once the barrel start going soft, the piston rod itself becomes the holding support of the barrel assembly. to make sure that won't happen too early, the easiest way is to beef up the barrel.

It is a bit problematic, once the barrel start yielding, the piston may not go back into the same position as the gas block and the barrel start falling off. With the sig, the gas tube will at least keep the piston and the gas block aligned until the gas tube itself is yielding as well.
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This is all relative to the reality that the G36 receiver will likely be deforming before the barrel does from the heat.

All this is relative to the fact that rifles are all prone to failure under extreme conditions, just like people. I think the G36 design is such that it gets the job done in the circumstances it was designed to. The real question that is always asked by end users of assault rifles is the one civilians here generally don't ask: "Will this tool meet minimum standards for a price that is low enough that I can outfit an army?" So much more goes into putting people in the field then the rifle they're using like food, water, ammo ...
 
Andrew,

I agree. The G36 is the most under rated assault rifle in the world. 24000 rounds without lubing or cleaning during testing. No other weapon in the world can match that.
As for G36's melting and the barrel nuts becoming loose; when I was in Virginia at HK I brought this up. They told me that when reports of the loss of zero on hot guns came out it was taken very seriously. The engineers in Germany were notified and they tried in Virginia as well as Germany to duplicate the problem and could not.

The biggest fault is the issued sighting system (probably related to the impact shift issues) which is supplied with the gun to meet a price point. Once the issued sights are replaced with something better the weapon is very good.

Looking around the world at national level weapon trials, the G36 wins very often or is a finalist. It's becomming a very popular weapon world wide and has beat out their own 416 in some cases (probably a price point).

Rich
 
G36 is cool but the cocking handle location is balls. It moves the optics about 1.2" higher then necessary and is a pain to get at under stress if you need to clear a failure ETC. If they had placed it in a similar place to the G3 the G36 would be high on my list of successful platforms.

The real benefit that countries see with the G36 is price. IIRC the standard models run about $1200CAD Mil/LEO. That is a stupid good deal for such a beast.
 
re 416

HKparts.net has a complete HK 416 upper in 10.4" for $4295.00 USD. Comes with buffer,spring and a maritime mag as well. A very good deal considering I have seen them offered second hand for in excess of $6000!

This upper will fit mil-spec lowers (most any AR lower) and does not have proprietary offset of pins like MR 223.
 
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except that you are illegally exporting a controlled item from the USA.

you MIGHT be able to do it, if you had a pistol registered lower with an HK416 upper, but I think the US state Department would still deny the export of it.

Any gun parts over 100 dollars requires an export license and to be exported by a LICENSED exporter in the USA.

From what I've read, the barrel itself is considered a "machine gun" because the ATF said so (As is why they aren't getting any more of them).



Now if you want to try and illegally smuggle a gun part across, thats your option, but if you get caught, expect to spend a nice 10 years in Federal prison.


There is nothing illegal about the uppers in Canada though, But exporting from the USA would be quite close to impossible.
 
F22_RaptoR said:
except that you are illegally exporting a controlled item from the USA.

you MIGHT be able to do it, if you had a pistol registered lower with an HK416 upper, but I think the US state Department would still deny the export of it.

Any gun parts over 100 dollars requires an export license and to be exported by a LICENSED exporter in the USA.

From what I've read, the barrel itself is considered a "machine gun" because the ATF said so (As is why they aren't getting any more of them).



Now if you want to try and illegally smuggle a gun part across, thats your option, but if you get caught, expect to spend a nice 10 years in Federal prison.


There is nothing illegal about the uppers in Canada though, But exporting from the USA would be quite close to impossible.
Click to expand...


So if i through a lower on the bottom, and in semi-auto only would i then be able to bring it over the boarder after registering and everything else?
 
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