HK 416 on Future Weapons 22:00

It seems to me and I am no expert, that the 416 has some advantages in specific situations but not enough to warrant replacing the M4/C8. I could see issuing
the 416 to operators who are going to be in severe conditions with lots of dust and not much chance to clean their weapons. That kind off sounds like delta doesn't it? Some of the things I liked about the 416 had nothing to do with the firing mechanism. The floating the barrel guard off the bolt seems like it would work well as a mod to an M4.

Off topic, what would be the reason behind wanting a short suppresed 7.62?
Besides the obvious gadget lust I mean.
 
Some units like shoort suppressed 7.62x51 - with the 155gr or 178gr AMAX they are about the most manuverable and destructive systems than be deployed in an "assault" rifle. Add in 7.62x51 AP or Ball and you have a system than works in a anti vehicle or anti-medium barrier system.

The Hk416 does not do anything for dust. Nor do other piston systems unless they come with a cleaning lady...


Unsub -- ironical a Tier1 unit is primarily High Value DA in theatre -- so that argument falls flat.

Scarecrow - poor argument -- a bolt gun is a beter choice for a sniper rifle than a open bolt MG, and similarily the bolt action sucks in a belt fed -- you using an argument for piston based on a open bolt belt feed system --just cause one system works well within a certain operating environment does not make it ideal for others.




Rich- my issues is from what I have seen in my USE of the M16FOW, that I dont need a piston. Am I adverse to getting a Hk416 - nope.
I just despise someone telling me from his airchair in Canada that the rifle I have 2 feet from my armchair in Iraq is flawed.
 
I think everyone's so wrapped up on desert warfare, thanks to the war on terror, that it's so easy to think of all warfares in that aspect. What if this war on terror was being fought in regions similar to, say, British Columbia? Or jungle?
Would everyone ask about reliability in regards to dust? I don't know, but a small arm can't cater to all theatres and the one that can cover the most will be the one military will want to use. That's what I believe anyway. KevinB is succesfully using his M4 and he's not complaining. I suggest we wrapped this up and let everyone have their own opinions.
 
imagine_74714 said:
I suggest we wrapped this up and let everyone have their own opinions.
Click to expand...

Ahhhh NO. That's what we are here for is to debate our opinions. That's the point.

I think we should discuss Rich's favorite Sig vs. Ruger Mini 14 challenge.
 
DI, piston, DI, piston... Think about it this way: If you had to carry the new "uber-reliable" piston wunder gun into combat would you not take just as much care of it as the guy next to you with the DI gun? Does it really make a difference for the end-users the really matter?

I do wonder though, how come there are no new DI guns being developed?
 
Koldt,

Just because you can buy 5 or 6 Ruger mini 14's to one Swiss Arms doesn't make them a better gun.

If you call a Swiss Arms weapon an improved AK I will not be able to sleep again.

Kevin, what do you know about the Tavor?

What are the primary failures / shortcomings of the G36?

When talking to HK staff at the SHOT Show (grain of salt added considering the source) they raised some interesting points about the weapon. They claimed that when reports from the US emerged regarding shift of impact and / or over heating they were taken very, very seriously back in Germany. They stated that the Germans could not get the G36 to replicate some of the problems that were reported from the US (shift of impact when hot). They also said that the system is in use in Southeast Asia (read Thai Army I think) with good success and no similar complaints. Out side of the poor / cheap sighting system and melting it through firing more ammo than the average troop can carry into combat,
What is the major problem?

The G36 has been tested extensively a seems to always be a finalist or second place in many trials which should speak to some positive points.

Rich
 
I've put about 2500 rds through a G36 on course.I liked the rifle. Now that rnd count was over a 5 day period. The optics suck, but with the Knight's mount and a Aimpoint it "rocked" for me.
 
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What I want to know is, If you discount the point that whether one is more reliable than the other, then is gas-piston carbine on par with regular M4 in terms of performance? By that I mean, is HK416 shoots just as well as M4 carried in combat? That's what it all comes down to me. If it shoots just as well, then what the hell... But if it doesn't, then all this talk about reliability isn't worth the time to type the letters.
 
Tonights episode had the Barrett M468 6.8mm, along with the new M777 Howitzer, and the Super Hornet.

Interesting piece of gear. The new bullet definatley has more punch than the 5.56 or 7.62x39.

That stupid Richard Maxof**k is pissing me off which his stupid way of "hyping things up and talking (long pause) like a reeeetard"
 
Rich, all I know on the G36 can be put down in a matchbook. Talking to both German and Norwegian SOF in Afghan, both had said that their specific units had withdrawn the G36 from service due to frame cracking and "other issues" -- the Norwegians where running G3K and MP-5 until their C8SFW order came thru (from what they said) and the German had some sort of Diemaco C8 (which I was burning to get a picture of - but he would not let me) reported that they got from some joint unit, however he said that they where getting German M4's (which I suppose was the Hk416) to replace the G36.

On the Sig552 -- well you know they issue me one of those...
I carry a M4.
 
From http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/03/army_416_070327/

SF battalion wants H & K 416 tech
By Matthew Cox - Staff writer
Posted : Wednesday Mar 28, 2007 7:45:32 EDT

An Army Special Forces battalion based in Okinawa intends to buy 84 Heckler & Koch 416 upper receiver kits to improve the reliability of their M4 carbines.

The acquisition notice, posted Friday on Federal Business Opportunities Web site, describes the 1st Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group’s purchase in a letter of detailing the “justification for other than full and open competition.”

“Currently Heckler & Koch Defense Inc. is the only company that can meet the government’s needs,” the letter states. “H&K is the only company that manufactures the 416 Upper Receiver Kit.”

The kit allows soldiers to replace the existing M4 upper receiver with an HK proprietary gas system that “does not introduce propellant gases and the associated carbon fouling back into the weapon’s interior,” the unit said in the letter.

“This reduces operator cleaning time, and increases the reliability of the M4 carbine, particularly in an environment in which sand and dust are prevalent.”

The Army’s 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta — also known as Delta Force — has been carrying the 416 in combat since 2004.

Members of the elite unit linked up with German arms maker to fix what they believed were reliability flaws in the M4 carbine. H&K replaced the M4’s gas system with one that experts say significantly reduces malfunctions while increasing parts life.

For the foreseeable future, however, the conventional Army is sticking with the M4 and M16. The Army plans to buy about 100,000 M4s in fiscal 2008.
 
I just watched the ex-navy seal guy go through the torture test with the H&K 416 today. What a beautiful rifle. The detachable grenade launcher was sweet. How fun would it be to train with that? Anyone know if they have replaced any of the M4s being used by the military yet?
 
Only select SF use 'em. The HK-416 isn't and won't become general issue. Some units have even been forced to turn theirs in!
 
AWG had some of theirs removed since Big Army decided that having their show case unit have them made the M4 look bad.

USSOC and JSOC units are still using them.
 
I can't believe the people risking their lives are not given the option of using the best equipment due to such superficial reasons! Truly pathetic!
 
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