Hmmmm.. I don't know where to go next.. ** Bedding update**

[KodiakHntr]

I always feel a little 'dirty' (for lack of a better word) when I measure from inside to inside of my groups.... Kind of like I am cheating.... But if you say its ok.....

No, measure outside to outside, but subtract the diameter of your bullet to get the center to center distance.

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I got some advice from a guy today (I was jawing at the g-store after work) he told me to knock the 2 nibs at the front of the stock off my barrel (all SPS models have this). He said that worked for him on his SPS in 300 mag. I always thought you had to bed the action before you could float the barrel? (at least in this model) He also told me to "keep on going" with my ladder tests untill I see some pressure signs,

Do that.

A different guy told me to make sure my rnds are off the lands by at least 5 to 10 thou. He also said that I should do another ladder test at this OAL as the powder levels will probably change (makes sense to me) This guy also told me to not bother bedding the action or floating the barrel "thats a waste of time!" (this guys opinion I actually trust a bit as I have seen him shoot and seen some of the trophys he has around and he has always given good advice as far as shooting, reloading & hunting are concerned)

Don't do this...Why start at an arbritary point? Start at a known distance, say one thousand off the lands (if magazine allows), work your ladder until you see pressure signs or you find the accuracy you are looking for. I have yet to see a remington not perform exceptionally well with bullets seated almost touching the lands. CAUTION, this will change your pressure curve as the bullet hasn't had time to build as much speed before engaging the lands.

The gunsmith at the same place told me to bed the action and float the barrel to get better groups. Now this is from the "new" smith that just graduated from school in the states......

Do it. Making your gun more consistent will not be a detriment to accuracy. Consistency is your friend.

I think I will wait untill after the season to bed and float and whatever else......

Just do it. Bed the recoil lug, and first inch or two of the barrel. Don't worry about the entire action, or rear tang. The gains you may make from that you probably won't realize anyway. Bed lug, grind out the pressure points at the end of the stock, and any other contact areas in the bedding channel and go to the range and amaze yourself.

 

[Innovative]

notsorichguy .........

To start off, you need to get your rifle properly bedded before you can ever expect to shoot good groups consistently. It appears that you have several issues that are affecting your accuracy. I designed the "Tech Tips" section of our website to help shooters find ALL of the reasons why their rifle isn't performing up to their expectations. Check it out.

- Innovative

 

[notsorichguy]

BC Fred, I did a bunch of testing that I didn't post in the original thresd.... I didn't feel it was relevant.

Kodiak, I'm going to do some "tweaking" starting tonight.... I will how I do by the end of the weekend.

Innovative, LOTS of info there, I guess I have some reading to do!

I guess I have some stuff to get done before the end of the weekend!

Cheers!

 

[BCFred]

BC Fred, I did a bunch of testing that I didn't post in the original thresd.... I didn't feel it was relevant.

Cheers!

Yup, it's hard to decide what to put in and what not to that is for sure. But the ladder is just a shortcut to get one quickly and economically to a load to begin serious testing. The next step should probably be to shoot enough at the best value one finds (or the one you choose anyway) until you have a good idea of how the rifle shoots there. I guess the only time I would not do this is if the results were totally unacceptable. (An example would be my 6br and a 105 grain Amax, which it shot off the paper during ladder testing at 100 meters. I can't see testing that bullet much more in that particular rifle. The thing is I wouldn't want a load that threw at least one of the bullets off paper regardless. As a point of interest, the rifle is close to 1/4 MOA with 88 g Berger FB or 90 grain Scenar.) How much you would test is a technical question. The answer depends to a large extent on how variable the groups you are shooting are and how accurate you want your estimate to be. At any rate, not knowing the average group size and how variable the groups are at a particular load makes it impossible to know if a change in load makes a difference. (Or a change in any other condition for that matter, e.g. bedding the rifle or changing the powder or seating depth etc.) Frankly, most of the testing I have done over the past 30 years or so has been a trade off between need to know, how much time I've got and how deep my pockets are. Sometimes it has been a real challenge avoiding that feeling that I'm testing stuff without finding anything that I can put my feet on. Oh well! It's all interesting and we do manage to hit something eventually!

 

[rnbra-shooter]

No, measure outside to outside, but subtract the diameter of your bullet to get the center to center distance.

That will give the correct answer, but it involves doing math.

Here's a method that also gives the correct answer (centre-to-centre distance), but doesn't involve math. I can't take credit for thinking of it, but I do take credit for using it!

- find the furthest shots in the group
- measure from the *outside* edge of one of those shots, to the *inside* edge of the other shot
- the result is the centre-to-centre distance of the two furthest shots in the group

 

[savagefan]

You may have a wonky barrel hat shifts with a little heat. I Had a 742 that did just that. Second shot was an inch and a half from the first, four more would group within an inch of the second.

 

[notsorichguy]

On thursday night I perpped the stock for bedding. I cleaned it out, removed some material and also floated the barrel channel.

On Friday I was out of town right after work, but I still managed to get to the g-store and buy a Brownelles acura-glass Gel bedding Kit. It came with everything I needed except for the straws and the plastercine and was pretty reasonably priced at ony $25.

I didn't get back to town till Saturday at about 9:30pm, So I then made room in the barel chanel for a couple of Tungsten rods I had laying around..... (to my wife :I knew there was a reason I kept these!) I also decided to add a little weight in the fore stock, I decide to use 10 124gr 9mm cast bullets..... I have a bunch so I won't miss 10!

This morning I started to apply the release agent included in the brownells kit to the action. I had a small brush and it worked like a charm (I think.....) I coated (about 10 coats) everything I thought may even accidentally come in contact with the bedding material. I used a 7/11 big-gulp straw for the action screw holes and then coated them liberally with the release agent as well.

After I was done coating the action for the last time (I actually only used about half the release agent, they give you lots!) I started mixing the accu-glass following the directions included in the kit. When that was mixed I started placing it in the stock as I had planned.

After the bedding material was where I wanted it, I placed the action in the stock and clamped it in place.

I accidentally put too much bedding material in the fore stock while covering my tungsten rods and the 9mm cast bullets..... I bedded the complete barrel!!!

I am not too concerned with this as I have 10 coats of release agent on the barrel, so I know it will come apart, but I think I may wind-up re-floating my barrel.... I will shoot it first before I try to float the barrel again. I thought about putting 2 layers of tape on the barrel from where I wanted the bedding to end, but I had already put 5 coats of release agent on by that time so I decided to "see what happens".

All in all it was a pretty easy job to do, I was apprehensive of doing this myself but due to the advice I recieved from CGN'ers I went ahead and did it anyway!

Thanks for all of the advice! I will post a range report (hopefully this week) to see if this was a success or not!

Cheers!

 

[notsorichguy]

Just finished taking it apart...... It looks good!

It all came apart, the release agent worked awesome. The barrel lug was a little tricky, but I expected that.

The Forestock is STIFF and you can tell I added 1240gr of lead and 1 oz of tungsten in there!

I will post Pics & hopefully a range report tomorrow in the late evening (if I don't have to work late and if the weather does what it says it's going to)

Cheers!


Edit*** to add Pic!

 

[notsorichguy]

I managed to get to the range yesterday evening but I didn't get a chance to post a range report last night.

When I arrived, conditions were pretty good, overcast, about +1 and wind from my back from 8'oclock to 2'oclock gusting from 3k to 15kph.

I managed to get all of my stuff packed up but not loaded in the vehical by dark..... So I just had enough time to shoot what I wanted to.

I tried 5 shot groups @ 3.17 (best from 1st test), 3.24 (best from 2nd test), 3.27 (best from 3rd test), 3.44 (10 thou off the lands), 3.42 (30 thou off the lands) and 3.40 (about 50 thou off the lands)

My 2 best groups were 3.44 OAL and 3.42 OAL.

3.44" all 5 shots were in a 1.927" group.

I pulled the last shot of the 3.42 group..... but with the flier out of the equasion it was a 1.66" group, with it in it was 2.106.

What next...... any advice? I was thinking I would load up 50 @ 3.44 and dial in my scope........ But I do have about 2-3 weeks to play with here, so I have the time to try a little more tweaking........ I was told to try another ladder @ 48.4, 48.7, 49.0, 49.3, 49.6, 49.9, 50.2, 50.5, 50.8, 51.1. 3 shots ea.

 

[pilgrim]

you should free-float your barrel first.....

 

[CyaN1de]

I am wondering why you bedded the entire barrel? Or did you not mean to do this?

All that should be bedded is from the Recoil Lug to the Rear Tang.

Recoil lug should only have been taped on the front, sides and bottom. The back of the lug (closest to the action) should have been left with only release agent on it.

You should not use clamps to hold the action in, this will cause stresses in the bedding. I use electrical tape about 2" in front of the recoil lug wrapped around the stock and barrel several times which is more than enough pressure to hold the action and barrel in the stock while the bedding sets.

Get yourself some long 1/4" Fine Thread bolts and cut the heads off, us a dremel to make a slot in the cut off section of the bolt so you can turn it with a flathead screwdriver. Use these instead of straws to line up the bolt holes. Be sure to put release agent on them so you can get them out. Drill the excess bedding out of the bolt holes in the stock afterward as the bolts should not touch the bedding or the stock.

How did you make sure that your barrel was centered in the barrel channel? Using several wraps of masking or electrical tape on the barrel will keep the barrel centered when the action is put into the stock and while the bedding sets. You will have to wrap and test to find the proper fit.

 

[notsorichguy]

I had it out to the range this weekend.

I am a happy camper!

3 shot groups are ranging from .561" to .743"

I guess bedding the action and the entire barrel (oops!) wasn't so bad of a f**k up after all

Cheers!