Holding MOA

titch--

titch--

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Thought I would post this here because...

I wanna know from the guys with hunting rigs how far out are you guys holding MOA for? Or would like to hold (or under) MOA.



I finally got some steel to shoot now, so Im out doing that whenever I can to get some trigger time in. Also I just kind of started shooting from a bipod so theres a little learning curve for that too.

Im only shooting at 360yds for right now till I get my fundamentals in check. Right now I think Im more worried about hearing that gong then thinking about my hold, breathing, trigger etc... lol I know its just a matter of time before I tighten up my groups. Once I put my mind into it that is. :p


My gong at 360yds
223360yds_zpsb0ae1d60.jpg
 
I can hold MOA out to about six or seven inches on a good day. As many as ten if the planets align.

I've never taken the time to do a serious test. Maybe this weekend I'll be able to see what I can make happen, probably with five foot groups at 100 meters.
 
I can shoot MOA out past 500 yards with some of my hunting rifles. Yep, shot some nice groups, the problem is that damned wind, or how I hold the rifle one day to the next. Trying to hit within a couple inches of where you want first time, every time, is the hard part. Accuracy is shooting small groups Precision is getting the groups exactly where you want them.
 
I take my hunting rifles out shooting sometimes. Zastava M85 in 7.62x39, Mosin Nagant 91/30 'sporterized', vz. 24 mauser 'sporterized'.

I can hold about 2 MOA @ 100m and 3 MOA @ 200m with the right ammo, they aren't match grade rifles.

I never go out past that distance with my hunting rifles because I hunt in thick bush in very mountainous terrain. The last black-tailed deer I harvested, the shot was probably at 20-25m. This has happened a few times and has made me consider downgrading to 2-7x scopes.
 
titch-- said:
No one takes their hunting rifles out shooting?
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For general purpose hunting rifles I like to see 1 MOA or very close out to 500 yards. I live on the prairies and we shoot long. For long range hunting rifles I'll take everything I can get, but the goal is 1/2 minute at 1/2 mile. Rodent rifles aren't good for much if they can't shoot 1/2 MOA or better to as far away as you can see a gopher.

Mechanical accuracy is actually over-rated in the vast majority of hunting situations. Target competitions are won by centering the group you have. Meat and trophies are won by putting the first shot close enough to where you want it from whatever position you can manage. Even better if you can do it before the animal dies of old age or wanders off.

There's not much use in agonizing over an inch in a long range group, when the time could be better spent learning to deal with wind drift that can be measured in yards. Its hard to f up a bolt action hunting rifle so bad that it isn't good for 3-400 and maybe 500. Yet people keep missing, and at considerably closer ranges then that. That's telling me that people are putting their time, money and effort into the wrong areas.
 
loogin: 6-20x44 viper.

Steve: 600-700 is more then I wanted to hear. :p I guess it gives me something to shoot for. :)

RoA: I was hoping to get out to 500 this fall once I get my part worked out some more. I hear yeah on the wind thing. Bullet drop is more less a constant, but the wind is a whole other matter. Ive been watching a bunch of videos on reading mirage or in my case, trying to read mirage. :) That and other signs like moving trees/grass ect.

bp: 20-25m now I wish I could get everything to come in the close for me. My one and only deer that I got was about 20, but I cant see that happening out here in the prairies to much. :) In fact it was very exciting for my first bigger game kill.

Dogleg: Im hoping by the time coyote season starts this year Ill be very close to MOA out to 500. I dont think Ill get that with this 223 that Im shooting right now, Im crossing my fingers that my 243 that I havent shot yet will shoot good for.

Thanks guys for your input. I was thinking it would be around the 500 range.
 
Well I got out on sunday for some more shooting so I thought I would post here.

I think one of my coyote rigs is ready for this winter.

My first two rounds on the right and I got excited and blew it on the third one. It still measured 3.5" at 360yds and thats without taking off the .223 of a inch. So its coming along slowly. :)
Stevens223360ydsgroup_zps9dc4b3b7.jpg


My shooting position
Stevens223360yds_zps7bcd44f7.jpg


cheers
 
Dogleg said:
For general purpose hunting rifles I like to see 1 MOA or very close out to 500 yards. I live on the prairies and we shoot long. For long range hunting rifles I'll take everything I can get, but the goal is 1/2 minute at 1/2 mile. Rodent rifles aren't good for much if they can't shoot 1/2 MOA or better to as far away as you can see a gopher.

Mechanical accuracy is actually over-rated in the vast majority of hunting situations. Target competitions are won by centering the group you have. Meat and trophies are won by putting the first shot close enough to where you want it from whatever position you can manage. Even better if you can do it before the animal dies of old age or wanders off.

There's not much use in agonizing over an inch in a long range group, when the time could be better spent learning to deal with wind drift that can be measured in yards. Its hard to f up a bolt action hunting rifle so bad that it isn't good for 3-400 and maybe 500. Yet people keep missing, and at considerably closer ranges then that. That's telling me that people are putting their time, money and effort into the wrong areas.
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This was well said. I have rifles capable of MOA to absurd distances (PGW Coyote for example), MOA means nothing to me if I can't hit my target centered. I don't shoot groups, I shoot for center, and correct for it hit by hit so MOA means little. Shooting for center hits versus shooting for groups is one of the principle differences between the target world and the hunting world. Of course some competitions focus on center too, we have a fullbore military rifle match we shoot all the way to 1,000 yards now and groups mean nothing towards score- only centering and hitting the mark earns points. Groups are useful to see what a rifle and shooter are capable of, and immediately after that it's all about bullseyes.

500 is as far as I shoot my hunting rifles in regular practice, and that's farther than any hunting shot I've taken, it's more just to put a smile on my face as I hunt deep bush typically.
 
Worrying about MOA accuracy with a hunting rifle, when used under field conditions in typical Canadian fall time conditions, is much like measuring with a micrometer when you intend to cut with an axe. Seeing that you seem to have open country to operate in, consider the following. Usually 80% of a given group lands within 1 MOA. Thus there is a reasonable expectation that you can keep all of your rounds within an 8" circle out to 400 yards. If your group centers on your aiming point, and assuming an error of 1 MOA, your maximum range is the longest distance at which you can make a first round hit on a clay bird. That shot is on demand, with no sighters, and no wind flags. Just get into position and make the cold bore shot . . . oh by the way, if you shoot a 3 shot group, and your cold bore shot is always away from the two that are touching, sight in for the cold bore point of impact. Another method is to shoot a rapid 2 shot group, provided the 2 shots are within close proximity to one another, then ensure that you point of aim and point of impact are in coincidence. Thus is defined the difference between intrinsic and practical accuracy.
 
Ardent said:
MOA means nothing to me if I can't hit my target centered. I don't shoot groups, I shoot for center, and correct for it hit by hit so MOA means little. Shooting for center hits versus shooting for groups is one of the principle differences between the target world and the hunting world.
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This!!!!!! If more people learned to shoot centre mass we'd have far less wounded animals. It's actually quite shocking how tight your groups can become when you shoot centre mass enough. Vanessa put three inside 2.5 inches last week at 480 yards shooting at nothing more than the centre of an 18" gong. Paper targets are for sighting in and working up loads.....centre-mass targets are what all hunters should shoot at for field practice.
 
I sighted in for cold bore last year and will for this year aswell. Right now Im just getting some trigger time in to see what me and the rifle are capable of so I know our limits. :)

My last pic I thought wasnt to bad as I was only approximately off 1 1/2 inches to the right on my first shot from 360. Elevation was bang on, I just adjusted for the wind alittle to much. Now if I can keep doing that, I think Im doing good.


Boomer said:
Worrying about MOA accuracy with a hunting rifle, when used under field conditions in typical Canadian fall time conditions, is much like measuring with a micrometer when you intend to cut with an axe. Seeing that you seem to have open country to operate in, consider the following. Usually 80% of a given group lands within 1 MOA. Thus there is a reasonable expectation that you can keep all of your rounds within an 8" circle out to 400 yards. If your group centers on your aiming point, and assuming an error of 1 MOA, your maximum range is the longest distance at which you can make a first round hit on a clay bird. That shot is on demand, with no sighters, and no wind flags. Just get into position and make the cold bore shot . . . oh by the way, if you shoot a 3 shot group, and your cold bore shot is always away from the two that are touching, sight in for the cold bore point of impact. Another method is to shoot a rapid 2 shot group, provided the 2 shots are within close proximity to one another, then ensure that you point of aim and point of impact are in coincidence. Thus is defined the difference between intrinsic and practical accuracy.
Click to expand...
 
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