Recreational ranges are not in the business of qualifying people for professional firearms use and no-one professes to do so. We train members for safety during recreation and sports and safe gun handling while others are on the range is essential.
Sure...and IPSC and other sport shooting qualifications help do the weeding-out and the training. I don't think anyone said that IPSC, IDPA, etc. is the only way to train action sports shooters, they are just readily accessible and require no additional investment from club organizers/managers.
Well you are the one who seemed to suggested that a 3 year, voluntary refresher was Standard. What I said was that to get compliance to a refresher, the club would need to effectively track members and ensure that this happened. If this 3-year refresher didn't help avoid "having a preventable accident" why would organizations do this? Personally, I think 3 years is too long.
Some clubs do and some don't. The reason why some clubs don't and instead rely on IPSC or IDPA as has been endlessly repeated is that there are limited club resources to run an in-house qualification program. I don't understand why you continuously imply that the reasons are malice/stupidity and/or nanny-ism.
Why would you doubt that our action ranges "require" training? I thought we agreed that it would be prudent that users of action ranges be trained to use them safely. If this doesn't point to a necessary requirement I don't know what does. This is needlessly argumentative and I'm going to step out after this post since the thread is rapidly going off the rails.
In terms of "actual incidents", if you call an incident someone getting killed - no, thank goodness. If an incident is an ND/AD, shot over a berm, into the range floor, trigger control issue, breaking 90 issue - well yes and more often than we'd like. Have to say I'm glad that we don't share a range.
I am glad you were the one who first this was starting to get needlessly argumentative. IN re-reading the entire thread before reply, I think we may having a little bit of disagreement simply because we were at one point talking about two different things. TO be clear, SOME people seek out holster training simply to confident in their ability to shoot from a holster. SOME clubs require holster (and additional) training in order to shoot from a holster at that club. I get that you are pretty much talking about the club side. I was going back and forth a little and probably wasn't as clear as I could have been.
Both recreation clubs and professional organizations have the same goal in mind. Safety. Since we are both dealing with the same firearms, its mostly the same science and skills and rules at play.
I see your point about the effort the club would have to commit to monitoring and enforcing refresher training. I understand what that would entail, but then I am confused when you claim that 3 years is too long. Wouldn't doing it every year take MORE work? Even if you are planning to let IPSC or IDPA stand as the necessary qualification, do you not still need to track that people are current with THOSE organizations? and have your ROs enforcing the rule?
Why would clubs do this training and qualification if it didn't help avoid a preventable accident? Well, in general, life is filled with examples of people doing things believing that it will have an effect that it will not.
YOU paint this picture of a dichotomy between clubs who run their own courses, and clubs who don't. With respect, You presume that clubs that don't use IPSC etc as a stand in., but this is a false dichotomy. THere is a very viable third option that many clubs choose, and that is nothing at all. My club does not require any training or qualifications to shoot from a holster, to shoot on the move, etc. As far as any one can tell, our safety record is the same as 98% of other clubs. Zero reportable injuries. Every club is different, has different members, different demographics, different facility etc. Each club of course should decide for itself what is appropriate.
Why do I doubt your action clubs require training? Well, for starters I am going to assume, and please correct me, that your range is designed properly and approved by a CFO, and as such is a safe range suitable for discharging firearms. I am also going to assume that you have safety rules, that the vast majority of your membership follow the vast majority of the time.
Prudence is mitigating actual risk with policies and procedures that demonstrably reduce the likelihood or severity of an occurrence. IF you take a look at the actual records for accidents involving all firearms, in all places, under all circumstances, the rate of death and serious injury would lead one to conclude that while the consequences of error can certainly be disastrous, it is not even remotely common. WIth such a small sample size, its really hard to say with any degree of certainty what training is necessary, but it should be clear that gun owners write large are doing a pretty good job on the gun safety thing. Lastly, when you look at the known tragedies over the last few years, they are pretty evenly distributed among hunters, action sport enthusiasts, casual range goers, back 40 crown land users, and tinkerers at home, which is to say not more than one or two people in each category over the last ten years.
SO given that the vast majority of clubs seem to be doing fine without advanced holster/action sport training, and that most gun owners seem to be doing fine, and that even trained and experience action sport enthusiasts still have tragic accidents, you can make your own conclusion how necessary any club driven training needs to be.
I don't really see where I implied anything about malice or stupidity, but yes I will concede some clubs definitively are prone to some nannyism, but thats fine. Your club, your rules. Each member can vote with their feet as they see fit.
Your range has more muzzle sweeps, shots over the berms, trigger control issues, and floor pops than you'd like; tell me, is this happening on the action ranges, the other ranges, or both? If its not exclusive to the action ranges, perhaps you should consider making EVERYONE do a BB course, regardless of if they shoot action or not. How does your club handle the individuals who have incidents? DO you ever require them to go back and recomplete certain training?
I think you and I will agree that regardless of your skill sets or interests, the more good training you seek out and complete, the better. (please don't take that as an endorsement of mandatory training heaped on people that might not need it).
Finally, it seems we have a difference of opinion and experience on how to approach a safety issue, and your conclusion is to be glad we don't share a range? Ok man. What range? I will voluntarily put it on my do not call list.