Get a good belt and a belt holster. The belt is close to being as important as the holster, so get a gun belt not a heavy casual belt. There's nothing as hopeless as having your belt stretch under the weight of the gun and mags. 5.11 makes gun belts that are widely availble, as do Gould and Goodrich. Unless you're going to get a genuine Wilderness instructor belt, I'd skip the Rigger style belts, the ones without the stiffener just don't cut it. I have a Raven holster for my M&P9 and it's terrific, but it won't help you win an IPSC match. Blade Tech is highly recomended, particularly the 'Dropped Offset' holsters.
Holster Question
- Thread starter PrimeTime
- Start date
Get a good belt and a belt holster. The belt is close to being as important as the holster, so get a gun belt not a heavy casual belt. There's nothing as hopeless as having your belt stretch under the weight of the gun and mags. 5.11 makes gun belts that are widely availble, as do Gould and Goodrich. Unless you're going to get a genuine Wilderness instructor belt, I'd skip the Rigger style belts, the ones without the stiffener just don't cut it. I have a Raven holster for my M&P9 and it's terrific, but it won't help you win an IPSC match. Blade Tech is highly recomended, particularly the 'Dropped Offset' holsters.
- Location
- Prince George B.C.
For a 'noob' I would suggest a BladeTech Dropped Offset Holster.
Use it as it comes for IPSC and remove the DOH attachment for IDPA.
This will work while you try the different games out. The problem is the screws will eventually break or otherwise get messed up if you are continually converting back and forth, so...after you play the games for a while you will have a better idea of your own needs and preferences and can settle on one setup or buy another rig.
Go with the belt loop/slot style as this offers the most secure attachment. Of the 2 holsters I have that came with both a paddle and a loop attachment I settled on belt loops for both of them for this very reason. Paddles are usually a-okay but I prefer the security of belt loops.
Double Tap at the top of the page sells BladeTech and provides very good service.
John
Most models of the Blade-Tech DOH can have it's drop/offset spacer removed (to make it a belt-level holster, legal for IDPA) in minutes.
When you want it to be dropped and offset again (for IPSC, perhaps) the spacer can be replaced in minutes.
Well how 'bout that!
I just went and checked my DOH and you're right. It would still be a near thing for the body to gun spacing. The IDPA rules call for a max of 3/4 inch gap max between the shooter's body and the inner side of the gun. The doctored up Bladetech would be a near thing on that count just because of the thickness of the belt loop. But I'm sure that for casual club matches they'd overlook it if it's a near thing.I have yet to actually make it out to the local club's IDPA weekly club match evenings but soon. In prep I decided to take up leather working and made a belt style pancake holster. It worked out extremely well. So well that I went and got more leather and made a two piece stitched and glued gun belt to hold it. Now I just need to find the time to actually get to the Chilliwack club's range for the match! ! !
- Location
- Prince George B.C.
BCRider, actually it isn't a close thing at all. When you remove the spacer you are left with the same holster you get if you buy BladeTech's IDPA approved holster
I have purchased both the DOH and the Bobbie Who'isNAme Competiton IDPA pack and it is the same gear except for the spacer.
FYI.
John
I have purchased both the DOH and the Bobbie Who'isNAme Competiton IDPA pack and it is the same gear except for the spacer.
FYI.
John
hmm, i did not know that - but then again i haven't looked too closely at the IPSC rules (looked more at the IDPA rules, though). does IPSC allow IWB holsters (yes, they will be very slow), or do they HAVE to be external on belts?
C Broad Arrow
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I would suggest that you take a look at the IDPA rules at http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf
Here is a portion of the rules.
Effective April 15, 2005, the IDPA “Approved Holster List” is no
longer in effect and holsters previously listed are NOT
necessarily approved for IDPA competition.
The two primary reasons for this are:
1. Some holster companies have constantly changed the
specifications of some holsters and several holsters originally
approved have been changed into non-approved configurations.
2. In most cases, MDs and SOs do not have holster catalogs or
samples and are rarely “holster experts.” Therefore it makes
enforcement of an approved holster list very difficult.
A legal IDPA holster MUST fall within one of the following
four categories AND meet all criteria following.
1. Categories of Concealed Carry Holsters
A. Inside the Waistband (IWB) Style.
IWB on body IWB front IWB back
This design carries the handgun inside the pants and belt and
typically has a hook or loop that attaches to the belt on the outside
of the holster. This design carries the handgun the closest to the
body of all designs and is ideal for wear with a short tail jacket or
vest. It usually carries the handgun with the muzzle rearward
(rearward cant). The tension on the handgun is regulated by belt
tightness. The Milt Sparks Summer Special and the Galco Royal
30
Guard typify this design. ALL VERSIONS OF THE IWB STYLE
HOLSTER ARE APPROVED FOR IDPA COMPETITION.
B. Pancake Style.
Pancake on body Pancake front Pancake rear
This design is made from two separate flat pieces of leather
stitched together with belt slots on either side of the “pouch” that
holds the handgun. This style pulls the handgun close into the
body as the belt is tightened and is very concealable and secure.
Pancake-style holsters are normally the most comfortable and
concealable holsters. They are worn on the outside of the belt and
usually carry the handgun muzzle rearward (rearward cant). The
Galco Combat Master, Dillon Master and De Santis Speed
Scabbard typify this design. ALL VERSIONS OF THE
PANCAKE STYLE HOLSTER ARE APPROVED FOR IDPA
COMPETITION.
31
C. Bruce Nelson/Askins Style.
Bruce Nelson on body BN front BN rear
This design has a belt tunnel on the back and a belt slot at the rear
to pull the butt of the handgun into the body for better
concealment. Tension on the handgun is usually created by a tight
molded fit and/or tension adjustment. Most Bruce Nelson style
holsters feature a re-enforced band around the top which facilitates
easy one handed holstering and they usually carry the handgun
vertically (neutral cant). The Sparks BN, Bianchi Askins Avenger
and Dillon LTD. typify this design.
NOTE: Virtually all brands and variations of the three styles listed
above that fully cover the trigger guard are suitable for continuous
wear, concealed carry and therefore suitable for IDPA competition.
D. Pouch Style.
Pouch style on body Pouch front Pouch rear
32
This design features a “pouch” that holds the handgun and usually
has a separate backpiece attached to the back of the “pouch” which
attaches the holster to the belt. This “backpiece” can either be a
belt tunnel, belt slots on either side of the “pouch” or a paddle that
slides inside the pants. This design is often manufactured of
synthetic materials and is normally the least concealable of the four
styles listed here. Tension on the handgun is almost always
created with a tension adjustment screw. Most pouch style holsters
carry the handgun vertically (neutral cant). This style, while
suitable for concealed carry, in many instances also lends itself
well to competition use. Many pouch style holsters on the market
are NOT suitable for IDPA competition. The Safariland model
5183, Wilson Combat Practical and the De Santis Pro Fed typify
pouch style holsters that meet IDPA criteria.
Probably one of the most popular pouch style holsters is the
current variation of the Uncle Mikes Kydex holster which is NOT
suitable for concealed carry or IDPA competition due to its offset
backpiece, which results in excessive offset from the belt/body.
2. Criteria of an IDPA Approved Holster
Holsters:
A. Must be designed for concealed carry and suitable for all
day continuous wear.
B. Must be worn on a standard belt of no more than 1 ¾” width
that must pass through the belt loops on the shooter’s pants.
C. Must fully cover the trigger of the firearm.
D. Must carry the firearm in a neutral (vertical) or muzzle rear
cant, but have no adjustable cant backpieces. Holster cant that
is adjustable by removing bolts and repositioning the backpiece
is allowed. Exception: IWB style holsters do not have to meet
this particular criterion.
E. Must hold the firearm with enough tension to allow the
wearer to complete normal daily tasks without fear of losing
the weapon.
33
F. Can have no offset backpieces and/or belt slots. The holster
may not offset away from the belt and/or body. No gap is
permitted in the following areas:
1. From the body to the inside of the belt.
2. From the outside of the belt to the inside of the
backpiece and/or backside of the holster.
3. From the outside of the backpiece to the inside of
the holster.
If you look through the belt slot area of the holster with it on
the belt/body, you should not be able to see any daylight. If
you can see through this belt tunnel area, the holster is not
approved.
Holster/backpiece must be constructed of “normal thickness”
common holster making materials, no filler is allowed to hide
an offset. In simple terms, the back of the holster must be held
tightly against the outside of the belt for proper concealed carry
(for questions, refer to #1 above and re-read the “Purpose”
section in the front of this rulebook).¹
G. Must be constructed of normal thickness common holster
making materials (leather, Kydex, plastic, nylon, etc.).
H. May not position the firearm where the breech face (autos)
or rear of the cylinder (revolvers) is below the center of the
belt. NO drop loops are permitted.³ Holsters for females may
position the breech face of a pistol or rear of the cylinder of a
revolver up to 1 ½” below the center of the belt.
NOTE: IWB style holsters are exempt from this criterion.
I. Must hold the firearm positioned on the body so an object of
¾”width cannot pass between the shooter’s body and the inside
of the firearm when the shooter is standing straight and
upright.²
J. Must be positioned on the belt in a location that will keep the
center of the trigger pad behind the centerline 4 of the body.
NOTE: Modification of current holsters and ammunition
carriers to meet IDPA criteria is acceptable.
34
NOT Permitted:
A. Cross Draw Holsters.
B. Shoulder Holsters.
C. Small of the Back Holsters.
D. Holsters designed and/or marketed as “competition”
models.
E. Muzzle forward or ‘on the belt’ adjustable cant holsters.
Those that allow the cant to be adjusted by the shooter while
the holster is on the belt are not allowed.
NOTE: Holsters with an adjustable cant via removal of bolts
and repositioning of the backpiece are approved if set for
neutral or muzzle rear cant.
F. Drop loop holsters.³
G. Positioning of the firearm where the breech face (autos) or
the rear of the cylinder (revolvers) is below the center of the
belt.³
H. Cutting of the front edge of the holster more that 1¾” below
the breech face on pistols or 1” below the rear of the cylinder
on revolvers.
I. Offset back-pieces and/or belt slots.³
J. Gap in the following areas:
1. From the body to the inside of the belt.
2. From the outside of the belt to the inside of the
backpiece and/or backside of the holster.
3. From the outside of the back-piece to the inside
of the holster.³
35
Not legal Legal
K. Seeing daylight when looking through the belt slot area of
the holster with it on the belt/body.³
L. Any type of filler to hide an offset.
Exception – Police or military officers may use their duty rig, but
ALL retention features of the holster MUST be used and all belt
equipment (mace, handcuffs, etc.) must be present.
¹ NOTE: Holsters for females are exempt from F. criteria, but may
not cant the handgun away from the body past 90 ° to the ground.
² NOTE: Female shooters are exempt from this test.
³ NOTE: Female shooters are exempt from this criterion.
4 NOTE: The seam on the side of a shooter’s pants may or may
not indicate where the centerline of a shooter’s body is located.
For IDPA purposes, the centerline of the body originates in the
center of the armpit and goes straight down.
36
3. Future Holster Approval
At this time, IDPA is going to try to avoid having a holster list.
However, should we find that competitors are straying from the
purpose and principles of IDPA, an “extremely abbreviated and
restrictive” approved holster list will be reinstated. MDs and SOs
are encouraged by HQ to use the FTDR penalty when illegal
equipment is used at their matches
ya, i did read it, which is kinda why i asked if an IDPA IWB holster would also be legal in IPSC, and if so does it have to clip onto a belt or can ANY of the IWB holsters be used (again, in IPSC) - cuz some (like the Fobus IWB) just hook on from the inside and don't have loops to attach to the belt.
for IDPA, i'm getting an IWB holster, so that's a done deal. just dunno if i can use that same holster in IPSC. (as far as rules are concerned, ignoring the fact that it would be a silly idea)
C Broad Arrow
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Ok.. here are the IPSC rules. http://www.ipsc.org/pdf/RulesHandgun.pdf
Generally speaking, if you are new to any of the shooting sport games it has been my experience that you get a holster that is attached to a belt. While an IWB holster is likely ok in IDPA, and may pass muster by an IPSC range officer, your primary concern s/b safety. Any holster not attached to a belt has a chance of coming loose on the draw or possibly getting you tangled in your clothes and equipment. This is not a good thing. Get an inexpensive Fobus or a Bladetech and get a feel for both sports before you but the holter before the horse ... so to speak.
I have dedicated holsters for both sports. I am sure others here who have experience have likley done the same.
IPSC Rules re Holsters
5.2. Holsters and Other Competitor Equipment
5.2.1. Carry and Storage – Except when within the boundaries of a safety area,
or when under the supervision and direct command of a Range Officer,
competitors must carry their handguns unloaded in a gun case, gun bag or
in a holster securely attached to a belt on their person (see Rule 10.5.1).
5.2.2. Competitors carrying their handgun in a holster must have an empty
magazine well, and the hammer or striker must be decocked. Violation
will incur a warning for the first occurrence but will be subject to Section
10.6 for subsequent occurrences in the same match.
5.2.3. Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, the belt carrying
the holster and all allied equipment must be worn at waist level. The belt
or the inner belt or both must be either permanently sewn at the waist, or
secured with a minimum of three belt loops.
5.2.3.1. Female competitors may be permitted to wear a belt, holster
and allied equipment at hip level, however, the top of the belt
must not be positioned below the furthest lateral point of the
top of the femur (tuberosity major). If another belt is worn at
waist level, the holster and allied equipment must be placed on
the lower belt (see Appendix D).
5.2.4. Spare ammunition, magazines and speed loading devices should be
carried in retention devices specifically designed for that purpose, to
reduce the risk of loss during a course of fire.
Competitor Equipment
IPSC Handgun Rules, January 2009, 2nd Edition 19
5.2.4.1. For table starts or similar, after the Start Signal, the competitor
may carry those items anywhere on their person, and this will
not be treated as contravention of Divisional rules.
5.2.5. Where a Division specifies a maximum distance that a competitor's
handgun and equipment may extend away from a competitor's body, a
Range Officer may check compliance by measuring the closest distance
between the competitor’s torso and the center of the longest dimension of
the handgun grip and/or any reloading devices.
5.2.5.1. These measurements will be done while the competitor is
standing naturally upright. See Appendix F3.
5.2.5.2. Any competitor who fails the foregoing test will be required to
immediately adjust his holster or equipment to comply with the
requirements of the relevant Division. The Range Master may
make allowances for variations in these requirements due to
anatomical considerations. Some competitors may not be able
to fully comply.
5.2.5.3. Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required
by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied
equipment must not be moved or changed by a competitor from
stage to stage. If a retaining strap or flap is attached to a
holster, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the
"Standby" command (see Rule 8.3.3).
5.2.6. IPSC Handgun matches will not require the use of a particular type or
brand of holster. However, the Range Master may deem that a
competitor’s holster is unsafe and order that it be improved to his
satisfaction, failing which it must be withdrawn from the match.
5.2.7. Competitors must not be permitted to commence a course of fire wearing:
5.2.7.1. A shoulder holster or "tie-down" rig (visible or otherwise),
except as specified in Rule 5.2.8,
5.2.7.2. A holster with the heel of the butt of the handgun below the top
of the belt, except as specified in Rule 5.2.8,
5.2.7.3. A holster with the muzzle of the handgun pointing further than
1 meter from the competitor's feet while standing relaxed,
5.2.7.4. A holster which does not completely prevent access to, or
activation of, the trigger of the handgun while holstered.
Competitor Equipment
IPSC Handgun Rules, January 2009, 2nd Edition 20
5.2.8. Competitors deemed by the Match Director to be active law enforcement
officers or military personnel may be entitled to use their duty holsters and
allied equipment however, the Range Master will remain the final
authority in respect of the safety and suitability of using such equipment at
IPSC matches.
5.2.8.1. Competitors deemed by the Range Master to be permanently
and significantly disabled may be given special dispensation in
relation to the type and/or placement of their holster and allied
equipment, and the Range Master will remain the final
authority in respect of the safety and suitability of using such
equipment at IPSC matches.
Generally speaking, if you are new to any of the shooting sport games it has been my experience that you get a holster that is attached to a belt. While an IWB holster is likely ok in IDPA, and may pass muster by an IPSC range officer, your primary concern s/b safety. Any holster not attached to a belt has a chance of coming loose on the draw or possibly getting you tangled in your clothes and equipment. This is not a good thing. Get an inexpensive Fobus or a Bladetech and get a feel for both sports before you but the holter before the horse ... so to speak.
I have dedicated holsters for both sports. I am sure others here who have experience have likley done the same.
IPSC Rules re Holsters
5.2. Holsters and Other Competitor Equipment
5.2.1. Carry and Storage – Except when within the boundaries of a safety area,
or when under the supervision and direct command of a Range Officer,
competitors must carry their handguns unloaded in a gun case, gun bag or
in a holster securely attached to a belt on their person (see Rule 10.5.1).
5.2.2. Competitors carrying their handgun in a holster must have an empty
magazine well, and the hammer or striker must be decocked. Violation
will incur a warning for the first occurrence but will be subject to Section
10.6 for subsequent occurrences in the same match.
5.2.3. Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, the belt carrying
the holster and all allied equipment must be worn at waist level. The belt
or the inner belt or both must be either permanently sewn at the waist, or
secured with a minimum of three belt loops.
5.2.3.1. Female competitors may be permitted to wear a belt, holster
and allied equipment at hip level, however, the top of the belt
must not be positioned below the furthest lateral point of the
top of the femur (tuberosity major). If another belt is worn at
waist level, the holster and allied equipment must be placed on
the lower belt (see Appendix D).
5.2.4. Spare ammunition, magazines and speed loading devices should be
carried in retention devices specifically designed for that purpose, to
reduce the risk of loss during a course of fire.
Competitor Equipment
IPSC Handgun Rules, January 2009, 2nd Edition 19
5.2.4.1. For table starts or similar, after the Start Signal, the competitor
may carry those items anywhere on their person, and this will
not be treated as contravention of Divisional rules.
5.2.5. Where a Division specifies a maximum distance that a competitor's
handgun and equipment may extend away from a competitor's body, a
Range Officer may check compliance by measuring the closest distance
between the competitor’s torso and the center of the longest dimension of
the handgun grip and/or any reloading devices.
5.2.5.1. These measurements will be done while the competitor is
standing naturally upright. See Appendix F3.
5.2.5.2. Any competitor who fails the foregoing test will be required to
immediately adjust his holster or equipment to comply with the
requirements of the relevant Division. The Range Master may
make allowances for variations in these requirements due to
anatomical considerations. Some competitors may not be able
to fully comply.
5.2.5.3. Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required
by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied
equipment must not be moved or changed by a competitor from
stage to stage. If a retaining strap or flap is attached to a
holster, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the
"Standby" command (see Rule 8.3.3).
5.2.6. IPSC Handgun matches will not require the use of a particular type or
brand of holster. However, the Range Master may deem that a
competitor’s holster is unsafe and order that it be improved to his
satisfaction, failing which it must be withdrawn from the match.
5.2.7. Competitors must not be permitted to commence a course of fire wearing:
5.2.7.1. A shoulder holster or "tie-down" rig (visible or otherwise),
except as specified in Rule 5.2.8,
5.2.7.2. A holster with the heel of the butt of the handgun below the top
of the belt, except as specified in Rule 5.2.8,
5.2.7.3. A holster with the muzzle of the handgun pointing further than
1 meter from the competitor's feet while standing relaxed,
5.2.7.4. A holster which does not completely prevent access to, or
activation of, the trigger of the handgun while holstered.
Competitor Equipment
IPSC Handgun Rules, January 2009, 2nd Edition 20
5.2.8. Competitors deemed by the Match Director to be active law enforcement
officers or military personnel may be entitled to use their duty holsters and
allied equipment however, the Range Master will remain the final
authority in respect of the safety and suitability of using such equipment at
IPSC matches.
5.2.8.1. Competitors deemed by the Range Master to be permanently
and significantly disabled may be given special dispensation in
relation to the type and/or placement of their holster and allied
equipment, and the Range Master will remain the final
authority in respect of the safety and suitability of using such
equipment at IPSC matches.
I just switched my IDPA holsters over to the paddle style. I use Blade Tech holsters. I ground off the two bottom hooks and left small nubs rather than the more aggressive hooks. The paddle is way easier and faster to remove or put on at the range and I find it just as secure to draw from. The DOH attachment works well for IPSC so you have the best of both worlds with the Blade Tech.
Take Care
Bob
Take Care
Bob
C Broad Arrow
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Sorry ... I can't be of help here. I use a specialized rig for IPSC and it depends which gun I used for IDPA, but they are pretty basic both my Bladetech and the Fobus. Get something that is inexpensive to start and go from there as your experience builds.
^ the Fobus are cheap and easy to buy on eBay. $20 to $30 at most. i've ordered the IWB and an external paddle holster, so we'll see how they pan out. even if the paddle isn't the best for IDPA / IPSC, it will still be usable for normal range days.
on youtube there's one lady who has something like 20-30 different types of holsters, at least half of which are for 1911-type pistols.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6id83qgQVic
[youtube]6id83qgQVic[/youtube]
.
on youtube there's one lady who has something like 20-30 different types of holsters, at least half of which are for 1911-type pistols.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6id83qgQVic
[youtube]6id83qgQVic[/youtube]
.
- Location
- Southern Ontario
Your question is not an easy one to answer. The type of holster you are going to use depends very much on its intended use. Can you give us more to go by?
well, i got my Fobus paddle in the mail last night (quicker than i expected). talk about simple and basic packaging! ha! the warning and lack-of-instructions are printed right on the back of the bag - not even a piece of paper inside, just a holster in a zip-lock type bag with a part number sticker on the front beside the company logo. at least i know they didn't waste money on that part!
didn't get a chance to do much with it last night, not even take a pic, but for $20 (eBay) it seems alright and the paddle has a "cutout" that your pants belt fits into to help keep the holster more secure, so it looks like it ought to stay in place reasonably well. it's not exactly pretty or classy or made with carbon fiber / kevlar / top-grain leather, though.
holsters......
i just purchased a smith and wesson m&p9 as well as an uncle mike's law enforcement concealment kydex holster. came with both paddle and belt options. i have tried both and prefer the paddle over the belt for a couple or reasons. first is the the paddle is much easier to put on and remove (the removing part takes a little practice but once you get the hang of it, there are no issues), second is that it feels more comfortable to wear with a bigger contact area on the hip then the belt loop option, and third is that it is just as secure, if not more then secure while drawing and holstering the weapon then the belt loop. i love the paddle option. hope this helps.
i just purchased a smith and wesson m&p9 as well as an uncle mike's law enforcement concealment kydex holster. came with both paddle and belt options. i have tried both and prefer the paddle over the belt for a couple or reasons. first is the the paddle is much easier to put on and remove (the removing part takes a little practice but once you get the hang of it, there are no issues), second is that it feels more comfortable to wear with a bigger contact area on the hip then the belt loop option, and third is that it is just as secure, if not more then secure while drawing and holstering the weapon then the belt loop. i love the paddle option. hope this helps.
